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Market Bots
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Tensou
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#1 - 2012-07-06 17:48:47 UTC
Hello,

I heard rumors of station trading bots, as I'm trying to station trade I have experienced some suspicious .01 cuts on semi-popular items. I put something up to sell for the cheapest price, then re-check from my orders page after approx. 20 sec and there are already 4 sell orders beneath mine. So my point is, CCP should sweep the station trader bots too, so flesh type bots like me could operate on the market of semi-popular and popular items too.In the meantime We keep satiate buy orders and fatten bot wallets.




I have a feeling that there is a topic for this somewhere on the forum already, imagine a potato in exchange for the inconvinience.Pirate
TKL HUN
Jugis Modo Utopia
#2 - 2012-07-06 17:57:46 UTC
+1
Ariloulalelay Zha
Utopia University
#3 - 2012-07-06 18:00:35 UTC
+1 NOOO BOTS
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-07-06 19:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Error
CCP does ban trading bots, they're just less effective at it currently. They definitely banned a few dozen during the last great purge. You can also report characters as a bot by right clicking their character info and pressing report bot.
Tensou
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#5 - 2012-07-06 19:27:31 UTC
Eternal Error wrote:
CCP does ban trading bots, they're just less effective at it currently. They definitely banned a few dozen during the last great purge. You can also report characters as a bot by right clicking their character info and pressing report bot.



Main problem with this that the market bot names are hidden on the market, so you don't know who you need to report, even if you suspect an order. In mining/ratting the report system works well but this is a harder nut.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-07-06 21:14:29 UTC
Tensou wrote:
Eternal Error wrote:
CCP does ban trading bots, they're just less effective at it currently. They definitely banned a few dozen during the last great purge. You can also report characters as a bot by right clicking their character info and pressing report bot.



Main problem with this that the market bot names are hidden on the market, so you don't know who you need to report, even if you suspect an order. In mining/ratting the report system works well but this is a harder nut.



Yes, we should be able to see seller names and would give players several more options, be it for reports or meta gaming, any way this would be good for the game.

You can be sure I'd always look the char info before buying whatever, don't care about + or - 2 mills (random number for example) but do care about my available options to negate isk to someone.

brb
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-07-06 21:39:26 UTC
I gave up the trade profession because I just could not keep up with the market bots. How can I? How can any real person keep up with a bot running 24/7?

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#8 - 2012-07-06 23:09:04 UTC
Yeah, getting market bots is much harder than others. They use less resources to run as well, so it isn't as easy to catch.


And they are very annoying.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-07-07 14:24:07 UTC
Manually ban bots is unworkable. There are too many of them to identify and ban.

Do away with 0.01 isking, implement minimum increment on price changes (much like auctions). Even if it's a very small amount on high priced items, like 1000 isk on 1 mil isk items, bots would quickly bid themselves out of business.
Tensou
Riemannian Manifold Torus
#10 - 2012-07-07 16:03:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tensou
sabre906 wrote:
Manually ban bots is unworkable. There are too many of them to identify and ban.

Do away with 0.01 isking, implement minimum increment on price changes (much like auctions). Even if it's a very small amount on high priced items, like 1000 isk on 1 mil isk items, bots would quickly bid themselves out of business.


That would eventually demolish the markets, making it chaotic and impossible to use. CCP should fix the core problem and either make the bots visible in the markets in someway or make the system bulletproof with an advanced survey program.

Any solutions are welcome!Blink
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#11 - 2012-07-08 00:07:41 UTC
Put a captcha in the create and modify order boxes.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#12 - 2012-07-08 00:19:36 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Put a captcha in the create and modify order boxes.

:double facepalm:

This is a bad idea and you should feel bad.

Captchas achieve only one thing. Annoying legit players. Bots can do them faster and better than humans.
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-07-08 06:14:44 UTC
If you buy something from/sell something to that player, you can find their name. If someone is that obvious that you're pretty certain they're a bot, this should work for a relatively low cost anywhere except Jita at busy times. I'm not sure I support listing seller names as it would make it entirely too easy to compile a list of rich manufacturers.

Overall, I obviously support taking more action against market bots, I just don't really see this as a proposal as nothing concrete has been proposed (by the OP) and it's something CCP is already aware of.
Vim Toe
#14 - 2012-07-13 12:44:31 UTC
Buyer/Seller names are easy to obtain, Buy something or sell something to their orders and you have the name.

Are bots widely used should be the question, I trade outside of Jita and while I am at work I am checking my orders, every 10 mins or so, If someone .01 isks me I put it on my excel sheet then check it every 5 mins, If it happens inside that time I will place another order and 0.1 isk them to death or if the product has a large margin, I will start raising by 10%+

Jita you have 1k+ people there all the time, alot of those people 100's I would imagine will be trading all one upping each other, How many are using bots?

I would guess alot less than you think, Some people have alot of free time and trading is PVP.