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What are "Bittervets", bitter about?
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Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-10-08 18:14:50 UTC
EVE Stig wrote:
Igualmentedos wrote:
At what point does a player become veteran?


around when you get burnout, go away a few months then come back, rinse and repeat about two times, maybe three an you should be good lol


According to your definition I was a bitter vet my second year :P
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-10-08 18:15:11 UTC
Alright - an aspect that makes me bitter is learning to copy and paste a forum reply so when these new forums eats the first version, I can quickly paste my reply without having to rewrite it again...

...and now that I am bitter, my original reply can wait since this Dr. Pepper and a sack of whitey-one-bites (White Castles) require further attention.
Flistir
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-10-08 18:17:51 UTC
Engine trails.
Jirai Grepher
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2011-10-08 18:26:25 UTC
Give me back a cruise missle rifter, dual MWD Raven, Nano Vagabond, and all of the other fun things that made the game fun before.


Then i will be less un-bitter.



EVE before Tech 2, the best EVE ever.
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#45 - 2011-10-08 18:31:48 UTC
0-Sec people creating themselves a very stable and very boring empire. --> Become bitter.

People that used to do great projects and events leaving --> makes me bitter.

A Jaegermeister helps in both cases. First needs a bottle, second a shot. Always settles the stomach though.

Playerbase has changed. 0-Sec ain't all. Vote for different CSM next time.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
London
Center for Advanced Studies
#46 - 2011-10-08 18:53:03 UTC
Nothing, anymore.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#47 - 2011-10-08 18:54:22 UTC
As a matter of interest, when do I get to be a "bittervet" too?

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Milamara
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2011-10-08 19:05:22 UTC
Hayaishi wrote:
No, really, what is it?

Honestly, someone who hasn't been around a long time couldn't possibly understand what bitter vets are bitter about. This is because those who weren't around don't have the concept of "before X happened" and "after X happened" and simply writing it up doesn't nearly come close to experiencing the impact of a change or the impact of not having the change happen even though it was a long time coming.

Players who have been with this game since retail boxes were first sold have experienced the diverging paths of where the players think the game should have gone and where CCP took it.

Next up is to make EVE a The Sims in space to make it more mainstream friendly and there will be yet more bitter vets. Though from my point of view you are not a vet unless you own a 1st release retail box. Folks who started in 2006 aren't vets.

Want to beat the Goons at Forum Warfare? Leave the thread as soon as one of them replies to it and never go back.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#49 - 2011-10-09 03:50:19 UTC
I am not a 'vet' but I have answers for you anyway.

1. Programming-wise. CCP sux. I spent 10 years as a control systems engineering programmer. CCP has managed to ignore every 'Good programming, software project management' guideline that I have ever heard of.

Go to any bookstore, or do it on line. Look at the index of any book on software development. If you don't immediately start seeing issues, go back to Mario Brothers.

2. I started playing two years ago with the expectation of seeing something that might turn into a full immersion space exploration simulation. Kind of like what NASA promised, but the Americans don't have the education or money for any more.

Now we have . . . Castle Wolfenstein Moves to New Eden.

We aren't all like you. I've met several people who actually do research on mining methods and things like that. Real research. Tests. Experiments. Never heard of those? Too bad.

Anyway, the simulation is turning into crap at about the same rate that the player base is losing whatever brain cells it started out with. Morals and ethics went out the window long ago,

No. For many people who have played for more than a week, it's not a game. It's an opportunity to show what the human race could turn into if it had the chance.

What does the Eve future look like to me? Luddites. Back To The Cave Cultists. A few enclaves of humans among a mass of savages. Maybe it will last another year. Maybe not.

Post Apocalypse? Poorly done? Yes.

I play my 4 accounts in single player mode now. Its pretty much the only way I can stand it.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2011-10-09 04:02:43 UTC
A bittervet: Is someone who cares about the game. Typically, they've participated in testing when CCP has asked. They've provided feedback when asked. They've jumped through all the hoops to make the game better through bug reports and petitions. And they've been completely ignored by CCP watching the same bugs in pre-release content appear in released content. They've had their skills, abilities and assets nerfed after spending years reaching a pinnacle of success. And they're pretty much tired of listening to CCP pay lip service to the player base and watching the masses believe it time after time.

Don't ban me, bro!
Wolfcan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-10-09 04:25:58 UTC
Mistress Terrify wrote:
The only MMOs that survive are the ones that change, develop, and add stuff. Eve undoubtable is the most successful MMO by these standards.
But for resons that escape me, changes are always met with great hostililty by a vocal minority (no matter what the game, no matter how good the change is)
I guess that they just don't like change, and powerless to stop it - vent spleen and vile in every forum they can.

Mistress what change are you talking about? The vocal minorities problem with the last 18 months is there HASN'T BEEN CHANGE! EvE has been neglected to work on Dust514 and WoD.
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#52 - 2011-10-09 04:32:44 UTC
Wolfcan wrote:
Mistress Terrify wrote:
The only MMOs that survive are the ones that change, develop, and add stuff. Eve undoubtable is the most successful MMO by these standards.
But for resons that escape me, changes are always met with great hostililty by a vocal minority (no matter what the game, no matter how good the change is)
I guess that they just don't like change, and powerless to stop it - vent spleen and vile in every forum they can.

Mistress what change are you talking about? The vocal minorities problem with the last 18 months is there HASN'T BEEN CHANGE! EvE has been neglected to work on Dust514 and WoD.



Wrong. The only thing that hasn't changed in Eve is the number of paying customers. The game itself has had a lot of fat added to it along with more puerile programming errors . . . and now, total lack of foresight is causing storage issues.

Did you notice that Hilmar got a haircut? Either that or he had to move down to a smaller yacht.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#53 - 2011-10-09 08:42:14 UTC
CCP didn't send the puppies they promised.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2011-10-09 08:47:36 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
A bittervet: Is someone who cares about the game. Typically, they've participated in testing when CCP has asked. They've provided feedback when asked. They've jumped through all the hoops to make the game better through bug reports and petitions. And they've been completely ignored by CCP watching the same bugs in pre-release content appear in released content. They've had their skills, abilities and assets nerfed after spending years reaching a pinnacle of success. And they're pretty much tired of listening to CCP pay lip service to the player base and watching the masses believe it time after time.
Sorry. Making sense is not allowed here. Put on this dunce cap and go sit in the corner and think about what you've done! Evil
Wingshard
Wings to Discovery
#55 - 2011-10-09 09:31:46 UTC
*asks for years for a colorchange of bpc*

*keeps asking for it*

*finaly gets it*

*notices its only a slightly brighter blue that stil makes it hard to find a bpo in a huge pile of bpc*

*goes to photoshop and applys a greenshadder to an icon in less than 20 seconds*

*can't understand how ccp cant do it*

*is bitter*
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-10-09 09:44:31 UTC
Wingshard wrote:
*asks for years for a colorchange of bpc*

*keeps asking for it*

*finaly gets it*

*notices its only a slightly brighter blue that stil makes it hard to find a bpo in a huge pile of bpc*

*goes to photoshop and applys a greenshadder to an icon in less than 20 seconds*

*can't understand how ccp cant do it*

*is bitter*



while the colour choice is questionable, if you read the devblog you would understand why it took that amount of time to change the damn things

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Jill Antaris
Jill's Open Incursion Corp
#57 - 2011-10-09 10:10:53 UTC
Igualmentedos wrote:
At what point does a player become veteran?


When you fully understand the game, it doesn't really have something to do with SP. Then you will see how many things are really broken, halve finished or could be a in a much better shape if CCP actually took the time to address feedback during introduction of stuff or during changes, instead of dropping the ball on it for years. One of the best examples would be blasters, where CCP had tons of feedback from vents 3 years ago, that the scram/web changes will compleetly nuke them on bigger hulls than frigs and all you get is a dev in charge for the change telling you about how you should fit medium turrets on BS or multispec ecms in your med slots to fix the problem.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#58 - 2011-10-09 11:05:18 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…increasingly, it's about how clueless bittern00bs think it's about resistance to change.
This.

I don't mind change at all, in fact I welcome it, but it should be for the better.

Take for example the new cyno jumping effect. Sure it looks better than what we have at present, but we were promised awesome. We waited years for it and when it arrived, I watched it and thought meh.

Smartbomb effect bolted on, anyone?

I'm not even asking for the old effect to return, but couldn't CCP have done better? (at least the old one looked good)

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Ntrails
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2011-10-09 11:11:35 UTC
bitter about a bad game with a good metagame being sidelined for walking in stations?

or perhaps that the damned server keeps going down and we've got a cruor to rescue. WHO KNOWS
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#60 - 2011-10-09 11:22:28 UTC
Wingshard wrote:
*asks for years for a colorchange of bpc*

*keeps asking for it*

*finaly gets it*

*notices its only a slightly brighter blue that stil makes it hard to find a bpo in a huge pile of bpc*

*goes to photoshop and applys a greenshadder to an icon in less than 20 seconds*

*can't understand how ccp cant do it*

*is bitter*




Theres a good example of why people are bitter and why there will always be bitter people.

Whilst this issue may cause the poster genuine problems it probably has no effect on tens of thousands of others. If CCP changed that then it would make no difference to them who would be unhappy about their own personal issues.

The old saying goes you cant please all the people all of the time. CCP by neglecting Spaceships over WiS, Dust etc have in effect opted to please none of the people all of the time (well I guess Wis has its own supporters) but have clearly stated a change in direction now.

However much these changes that are planned please some people there will still be plenty of people who dont have the things they want change so they will be bitter.

Everyone has their own opinion of what Eve should be and what could be changed to make THEIR Eve experienced improved, but there is not one agreed direction that can be taken as it wont ever exist.

CCP's recent direction has made things worse but even when trying to focus on the spaceship games there will always be unhappy people because of the reasons above.