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CCP: a question about FW for the forseeable future

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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#141 - 2012-07-05 20:45:00 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Again I am calling this out now so that when the npc balancing is done and minmatar is washed up we will be able to see your days of tier five in the right perspective. We will know that it was because of your huge npc advantage. If that weren't the case then we would see you continue to dominmate like you did before the npc changes.


Ah well Cearain, while I continue to disagree about a number of things you say, I can understand and even empathize with the anger you feel at the way CCP has left some long-term imbalance in place (mostly from pre inferno I must say). I dunno, sometimes it does probably seem like we're playing the wrong game - but sadly for all our sense of natural justice there really isn't an alternative to an open pvp space opera game.

I guess the way you feel about faction war is similar to the way I feel about the moon-mineral exploitation in 0.0 that's led to a distorted and devalued reality there in the player-led sandbox (or more recently in the fiasco of the 1.1 wardec changes to benefit large alliances alone).

Guess what I'm trying to say is that I understand that you are angry with the game and its easy to target minmatar (as those players who have benefited in your eyes from the imbalance) don't get too bent out of shape there - not everyone is your enemy on an ooc level.





I do not mean this post to be any sort of insult to the grubby, selfish, spoiled minmatar players. I have nothing against them at all.

I simply want this post to be sort of a marker which will clearly identify the time that the minmatar dominance started to fade. And no it is not because amarr started getting larger numbers of players. (its much easier for the winning side that has an lp store many times as valuable as the side that is the underdog to recruit.) It is because ccp is finally addressing the npc imbalance which has always propped up the spoiled minmatar.

I recall reading some minmatar post that he can't wait till ccp fixes the npc imbalance so its clear that is not the cause of their doing so well. I can only say that, as ccp fixes the imbalance, it tends to show the opposite. As they fix the unbalance it tends to show that the npc imbalance is the only thing that was keeping minmatar in the game.

The npcs are still unbalanced in favor of the minmatar but there was some mitigation of that advantage. Yet we already see the minmatar expections of dominance giving way to expectations of both sides maybing hitting tier 3 or tier 4.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#142 - 2012-07-05 20:54:54 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Nave Drallig wrote:
nen and nisuwa's contested rates are steadily going up...


Nenna and Nisuwa are currently both 0%.

As far as Rakapas and SLAPD's relocation go, it's unfortunate that the system discourages the spreading out of home bases and instead gets people to all lump together in one or two systems. But in the end SLAPD only had a US TZ presence and the rest of the time the system got plexed.



I was prettty pissed when I heard Rakapas went down. There was some good fights there. To bad...


- end of transmission

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Nave Drallig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-07-06 00:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nave Drallig
chatgris wrote:
Nave Drallig wrote:
nen and nisuwa's contested rates are steadily going up...


Nenna and Nisuwa are currently both 0%.

As far as Rakapas and SLAPD's relocation go, it's unfortunate that the system discourages the spreading out of home bases and instead gets people to all lump together in one or two systems. But in the end SLAPD only had a US TZ presence and the rest of the time the system got plexed.



my point with Nenna/Nisuwa isnt that they are currently highly contested they are tier 0 (as of last night) instead of tier5 like they were up until last week. so they have gone down to that and now instead of seeing them always at 0 i see them actively getting plexed to some extent. I am not saying the ship is sunk... just its starting to take on water when it wasn't previously.


and X gal if i recall correctly once its decontested and LP is placed in a system to raise its level it takes longer to bring it back down. but i will be first to admit my grasp of that side of FW is a little foggy.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#144 - 2012-07-06 01:51:29 UTC
Maximus Hashur wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
LoL Cry much? HAHAHA P.. poor planning prevents P..poor performance O7
\


lol that just dosnt look right ROFL :)


Lets try that again....Prior planning prevents P.. poor performance again ROFL






PRIOR PROPER PLANNING PREVENTS **** POOR PERFORMANCE - they drill that **** into the RL military mind.


IM not FW but it seems this persons problem is a lack of FW participants on the Amarr side. Am i correct?



Correct - they have the pilots - but they are too lazy to participate.

There seems to be an attitude in Amarr that they should get to hold systems have instant tier4 bonuses all without any effort and that the Caldari should come and help them while half of them shoot at us.
Caldari had to start from the backfoot when the changes came - instead of staying idle - we moved to low sec - claimed homes and defensive plexed them when needed. We still have a lot of work ahead.

One day I logged in and just decided I owned Eha - it actually helps defend it when your corp has an 'ITS MINE' attitude.
The Amarr will not get ahead until their bigger corps CEO's mindsets change and they approach the war differently.

If a few corps 'take ownership' of a system each and made that system their goal and focus for only a week - they would start finding homes and get some space back for forward bases.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
MTR GhettoJedi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-07-06 01:53:37 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Maximus Hashur wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
LoL Cry much? HAHAHA P.. poor planning prevents P..poor performance O7
\


lol that just dosnt look right ROFL :)


Lets try that again....Prior planning prevents P.. poor performance again ROFL






PRIOR PROPER PLANNING PREVENTS **** POOR PERFORMANCE - they drill that **** into the RL military mind.


IM not FW but it seems this persons problem is a lack of FW participants on the Amarr side. Am i correct?



Correct - they have the pilots - but they are too lazy to participate.

There seems to be an attitude in Amarr that they should get to hold systems have instant tier4 bonuses all without any effort and that the Caldari should come and help them while half of them shoot at us.
Caldari had to start from the backfoot when the changes came - instead of staying idle - we moved to low sec - claimed homes and defensive plexed them when needed. We still have a lot of work ahead.

One day I logged in and just decided I owned Eha - it actually helps defend it when your corp has an 'ITS MINE' attitude.
The Amarr will not get ahead until their bigger corps CEO's mindsets change and they approach the war differently.

If a few corps 'take ownership' of a system each and made that system their goal and focus for only a week - they would start finding homes and get some space back for forward bases.



heard they ran out of milk and sugr, so they went to the store, they should be back anytime now... Idea
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#146 - 2012-07-06 05:11:35 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Maximus Hashur wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
JIm Hammer wrote:
LoL Cry much? HAHAHA P.. poor planning prevents P..poor performance O7
\


lol that just dosnt look right ROFL :)


Lets try that again....Prior planning prevents P.. poor performance again ROFL






PRIOR PROPER PLANNING PREVENTS **** POOR PERFORMANCE - they drill that **** into the RL military mind.


IM not FW but it seems this persons problem is a lack of FW participants on the Amarr side. Am i correct?



Correct - they have the pilots - but they are too lazy to participate.

There seems to be an attitude in Amarr that they should get to hold systems have instant tier4 bonuses all without any effort and that the Caldari should come and help them while half of them shoot at us.
Caldari had to start from the backfoot when the changes came - instead of staying idle - we moved to low sec - claimed homes and defensive plexed them when needed. We still have a lot of work ahead.

One day I logged in and just decided I owned Eha - it actually helps defend it when your corp has an 'ITS MINE' attitude.
The Amarr will not get ahead until their bigger corps CEO's mindsets change and they approach the war differently.

If a few corps 'take ownership' of a system each and made that system their goal and focus for only a week - they would start finding homes and get some space back for forward bases.



Lol, this is such a horribly misinformed post. The hilarious thing to me about FW is all the smug criticisms of what all the factions are doing right or doing wrong despite not being in the shoes of that faction. Cal/gal and Amarr/min can't be compared directly for a ton of reasons. They both had totally different situations going into the Inferno patch, NPC imbalance was different going into Inferno patch, and number of PVE FW guys more interested in PVE than PVP was different going into the inferno patch.

The thing about threads like these is that we really need to have solid conversations about GAME MECHANICS without insulting one another. Its fun to talk trash on another militia our point out their supposed shortcomings, but what we need to realize is that unless we can work the bugs out of FW while CCP is willing to iterate on FW, we'll be stuck with a broken system until CCP decides to look at FW again and the only people to blame will be ourselves. As easy as it is to look at the new mechanics and either feel shafted or feel smug about the benefits your side suddenly has, we really need to look bigger picture and take advantage of the fact that CCP is looking at FW before they move onto other things.

I would much rather have a system that works, than be in a situation 1-2 years down the road when the Amarr/Min FW side tips into Amarr favor and read tons of Minmatar threads complaining about the same gameplay issues that the Amarr are pointing out now that were never fixed or looked at. There is a lot of whining, but there are still LOTS of issues that need to be fleshed out with the current FW system.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#147 - 2012-07-06 05:18:09 UTC
good post pinky: however most of the problems WERE complained about BEFORE inferno AT the testing stage.

If they didnt listen then and we are stuck like this: will they listen when they can be bothered to do somthing and just how long is that going to take.

My thoughts are that they will not revisit FW (unless goons pull another genius exploit of course) for a long long time, which while things are stuck is going to be tough on the people in FW that are not enjoying their play time.

Just keep in mind that FW had a healthy pvp/fun track record before inferno turned into pve-sovcursions.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#148 - 2012-07-06 11:00:05 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Cearain wrote:
After all the chestbeating about your organization it appears you guys can't even pull it together for a day to achieve a goal - without goon help.


I have to point out to you that the Goons did not plex, either offensively or defensively. They merely upgraded systems we'd already captured. After Minmatar captured almost every available Amarr system, there was nothing left for us to do except defensively cap plexes for standings (lord knows we had enough LP). It's true that the buffer helped, but all the withdrawal have Goonswarm has done is lowered our average time spent in Tier4 and given Amarr a snowball's chance in hell of capping our systems.

But other than providing a bit of a buffer for our systems, you Amarr cannot cite your failures on Goonswarm interference. If you actually bothered to, IDK, read up on what happened, you'd realize that Goonswarm had a minimal impact on FW, and certainly did not contribute to Minmatar taking Amarr systems, which we've been doing with impunity even after Goonswarm pulled out.

Now that the Goons have pulled it, it stands to reason that Amarr will have an easier time plexing down systems, since Goonswarm will no longer be artificially buffering said systems.

The fact that Minmatar kicked your butts the past month has less to do with Goonswarm donating LP and more to do with the fact that Amarr's militia is a joke. You have a better chance now that the Fweddiblob has arrived.



You didn't get any lp for taking our systems. Those systems were by and large taken before inferno and it was the npc advantage that allowed you to do it. Sasawong alone has more vp than any minmatar corporation. Alt plexing is not something amarr could ever do before. But things are changing. Now the field is getting leveled and your dreams of hitting tier 5 are already fading.

No more goons to provide any semblence of organization to pitch in for a greater good. Your npc advantage was cut back (but still not close to eliminated) and now you just have your own selfish and spoiled pilots, who can't compete with amarr on anything close to equal terms and never had to. I think minmatar has nothing but bad news ahead.




Well, the funny part is while you want to sit there and harp about how we haven't hit T5, because that's all you have to say, the really embarrassing thing is that we can even debate about Minmatar hitting T5 - but even with the NPC rebalance and Goons pulling out, Amarr... still fails miserably to even T2 or take back any of their systems.

Roll

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#149 - 2012-07-06 11:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
Xuixien wrote:


Well, the funny part is while you want to sit there and harp about how we haven't hit T5, because that's all you have to say, the really embarrassing thing is that we can even debate about Minmatar hitting T5 - but even with the NPC rebalance and Goons pulling out, Amarr... still fails miserably to even T2 or take back any of their systems.



Are you honestly that blind?

Amarr have not had any influx of new players since the goon'sploit, the ones that stayed are still demoralized and still poor.

And who honestly can blame any new comers for not joining a terrible, demotivated, poor unorganized FW faction like amarr?

But guess what: we did just fine before inferno. Check the killboards, check the older forum posts, or not and spew more garbage.

The damage to FW as a pvp focused game career with isk funding through activity within it, is irreparable at this point. We only post 'whines' to let ccp know what to do to one day make it a viable and enjoyable career path one again some time in the future. While avoiding the pitfalls of bad coding and ill thought out exploitable mechanics that dont induce side swapping, and enemy alt use etc.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#150 - 2012-07-06 13:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Muad 'dib wrote:

The damage to FW as a pvp focused game career with isk funding through activity within it, is irreparable at this point.

But there is MORE pvp now. Much more. And you can still fund the pvp through activity - not as easily if you're on the losing side like us, but it's still great to get income while being able to fight at the same time.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#151 - 2012-07-06 14:21:17 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Cearain wrote:
After all the chestbeating about your organization it appears you guys can't even pull it together for a day to achieve a goal - without goon help.


I have to point out to you that the Goons did not plex, either offensively or defensively. They merely upgraded systems we'd already captured. After Minmatar captured almost every available Amarr system, there was nothing left for us to do except defensively cap plexes for standings (lord knows we had enough LP). It's true that the buffer helped, but all the withdrawal have Goonswarm has done is lowered our average time spent in Tier4 and given Amarr a snowball's chance in hell of capping our systems.

But other than providing a bit of a buffer for our systems, you Amarr cannot cite your failures on Goonswarm interference. If you actually bothered to, IDK, read up on what happened, you'd realize that Goonswarm had a minimal impact on FW, and certainly did not contribute to Minmatar taking Amarr systems, which we've been doing with impunity even after Goonswarm pulled out.

Now that the Goons have pulled it, it stands to reason that Amarr will have an easier time plexing down systems, since Goonswarm will no longer be artificially buffering said systems.

The fact that Minmatar kicked your butts the past month has less to do with Goonswarm donating LP and more to do with the fact that Amarr's militia is a joke. You have a better chance now that the Fweddiblob has arrived.



You didn't get any lp for taking our systems. Those systems were by and large taken before inferno and it was the npc advantage that allowed you to do it. Sasawong alone has more vp than any minmatar corporation. Alt plexing is not something amarr could ever do before. But things are changing. Now the field is getting leveled and your dreams of hitting tier 5 are already fading.

No more goons to provide any semblence of organization to pitch in for a greater good. Your npc advantage was cut back (but still not close to eliminated) and now you just have your own selfish and spoiled pilots, who can't compete with amarr on anything close to equal terms and never had to. I think minmatar has nothing but bad news ahead.




Well, the funny part is while you want to sit there and harp about how we haven't hit T5, because that's all you have to say, the really embarrassing thing is that we can even debate about Minmatar hitting T5 - but even with the NPC rebalance and Goons pulling out, Amarr... still fails miserably to even T2 or take back any of their systems.

Roll



T2 is not a goal for anyone but a fool. The point is (and its one you don't dispute) that just by mitigating the npc balance the amarr are already on the upswing and minmatar on the down swing. The npc are still horribly unbalanced and the minmatar are already losing the war. That is they are now losing more systems than they can gain back in a set amount of time. They used to be able to keep an advantage that allowed them to hit tier 5 now they can't.

This clearly demonstrates that the minmatar were just spoiled and used to getting eve on easy mode where amarr had eve set on hard mode. Now that ewar is removed minmatar still have eve on easy mode but amarr have it on medium and that is making the difference.

This npc change, and the goons getting kicked, are the only mechanical differences between the time when minmatar were capable of hitting tier 5 and now when they can't. So if Hans wants data he has it. The huge disparatey in the strength of the plex npcs did indeed give the minmatar a huge advantage. Unless he wants to say the entire reason for the change is due to goons no longer being there to boost minmatar.

I think it will be funny to watch if ccp continues to balance these npcs to see how quickly the minmatar fold. If on the other hand ccp does not continue to balance the plex npcs then I think we should just clearly Identify minmatar as the militia for new players. If someone is new to faction war they start out in minmatar militia automatically. Once they have a certain amount of experience then they can graduate to the more difficult forms of faction war like the amarr has.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
eddie valvetino
Bi-Polar Bears
#152 - 2012-07-06 14:39:34 UTC
didn't read the whole thread.

the first post was enough for me to see yet another lazy ****, bitching and moaning cos someone else is doing what they are too ******* stupid or lazy to do themselves...

yet another "oh ccp eve isn't easy for me, change everything to make it so"

Adept or **** off.. you ****
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#153 - 2012-07-06 17:31:04 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
good post pinky: however most of the problems WERE complained about BEFORE inferno AT the testing stage.

If they didnt listen then and we are stuck like this: will they listen when they can be bothered to do somthing and just how long is that going to take.

My thoughts are that they will not revisit FW (unless goons pull another genius exploit of course) for a long long time, which while things are stuck is going to be tough on the people in FW that are not enjoying their play time.

Just keep in mind that FW had a healthy pvp/fun track record before inferno turned into pve-sovcursions.



There isn't any question as to whether they are going to work more on Faction Warfare. They are, whether you believe them or not :) Posts like this just derail productive conversations, lets stop with the does-CCP-really-care nonsense and just stick to actually talking about the issues at hand.

If you're concerned with FW becoming more like "pve-sovcursions", I STRONGLY suggest you head over to the Dev-monitored thread for NPC feedback, the consensus in the FW community right now is actually to mandate MORE PvE, not less. I personally loathe the idea of forcing any FW pilot to PvE to participate in Sovereignty, it should be PvP in a perfect world. The problem is everyone is focused on asking for forced-PvE solutions, not spending their time coming up with an effective PvP-based solution instead.

If thats what the community wants, they'll very likely get that. CCP's already looking into ways to beef up the PvE-side and make it more challenging. But if shooting rats isn't how you want to take Sov, SPEAK UP, because there's far more people asking for forced-PvE right now and I'm very much afraid we'll get what we ask for during the Winter Expansion (which will include more FW iterations) and than be stuck with it, like you say.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#154 - 2012-07-06 18:58:20 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
good post pinky: however most of the problems WERE complained about BEFORE inferno AT the testing stage.

If they didnt listen then and we are stuck like this: will they listen when they can be bothered to do somthing and just how long is that going to take.

My thoughts are that they will not revisit FW (unless goons pull another genius exploit of course) for a long long time, which while things are stuck is going to be tough on the people in FW that are not enjoying their play time.

Just keep in mind that FW had a healthy pvp/fun track record before inferno turned into pve-sovcursions.



There isn't any question as to whether they are going to work more on Faction Warfare. They are, whether you believe them or not :) Posts like this just derail productive conversations, lets stop with the does-CCP-really-care nonsense and just stick to actually talking about the issues at hand.

If you're concerned with FW becoming more like "pve-sovcursions", I STRONGLY suggest you head over to the Dev-monitored thread for NPC feedback, the consensus in the FW community right now is actually to mandate MORE PvE, not less. I personally loathe the idea of forcing any FW pilot to PvE to participate in Sovereignty, it should be PvP in a perfect world. The problem is everyone is focused on asking for forced-PvE solutions, not spending their time coming up with an effective PvP-based solution instead.

If thats what the community wants, they'll very likely get that. CCP's already looking into ways to beef up the PvE-side and make it more challenging. But if shooting rats isn't how you want to take Sov, SPEAK UP, because there's far more people asking for forced-PvE right now and I'm very much afraid we'll get what we ask for during the Winter Expansion (which will include more FW iterations) and than be stuck with it, like you say.





I would be hesistant to assume that the community wants more PVE simply because thats what is more vocal on the forums. Carebears and people who generally more concerned about their wallets tend to be more prolific posters on the forums and also tend to be more isolated as far as their views not representing any sort of large group but only themselves, where out of a 100 man PVP alliance, you might have only 1-2 representatives from that organization that actually posts on the forums.

If you want to go purely off the forums and the numbers of people who post, you would walk away with the picture that the community does not support non-consensual PVP. Cmon bro.

You have contacts within each militias leadership structures. Are you saying that rather than having a smaller number of people who actually understand game mechanics talk to you directly, it would be better and more effective to spam alliance mails telling mass numbers of people to post in that thread saying "no" to forced PVE and treating it as a ballot box instead?

The moar you cry the less you pee
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#155 - 2012-07-06 19:01:29 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Cearain wrote:
After all the chestbeating about your organization it appears you guys can't even pull it together for a day to achieve a goal - without goon help.


I have to point out to you that the Goons did not plex, either offensively or defensively. They merely upgraded systems we'd already captured. After Minmatar captured almost every available Amarr system, there was nothing left for us to do except defensively cap plexes for standings (lord knows we had enough LP). It's true that the buffer helped, but all the withdrawal have Goonswarm has done is lowered our average time spent in Tier4 and given Amarr a snowball's chance in hell of capping our systems.

But other than providing a bit of a buffer for our systems, you Amarr cannot cite your failures on Goonswarm interference. If you actually bothered to, IDK, read up on what happened, you'd realize that Goonswarm had a minimal impact on FW, and certainly did not contribute to Minmatar taking Amarr systems, which we've been doing with impunity even after Goonswarm pulled out.

Now that the Goons have pulled it, it stands to reason that Amarr will have an easier time plexing down systems, since Goonswarm will no longer be artificially buffering said systems.

The fact that Minmatar kicked your butts the past month has less to do with Goonswarm donating LP and more to do with the fact that Amarr's militia is a joke. You have a better chance now that the Fweddiblob has arrived.



You didn't get any lp for taking our systems. Those systems were by and large taken before inferno and it was the npc advantage that allowed you to do it. Sasawong alone has more vp than any minmatar corporation. Alt plexing is not something amarr could ever do before. But things are changing. Now the field is getting leveled and your dreams of hitting tier 5 are already fading.

No more goons to provide any semblence of organization to pitch in for a greater good. Your npc advantage was cut back (but still not close to eliminated) and now you just have your own selfish and spoiled pilots, who can't compete with amarr on anything close to equal terms and never had to. I think minmatar has nothing but bad news ahead.




Well, the funny part is while you want to sit there and harp about how we haven't hit T5, because that's all you have to say, the really embarrassing thing is that we can even debate about Minmatar hitting T5 - but even with the NPC rebalance and Goons pulling out, Amarr... still fails miserably to even T2 or take back any of their systems.

Roll

Cool story bro. So instead of contributing to a discussion about game mechanics and the future of FW, you chestbeat.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#156 - 2012-07-06 19:06:14 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
good post pinky: however most of the problems WERE complained about BEFORE inferno AT the testing stage.

If they didnt listen then and we are stuck like this: will they listen when they can be bothered to do somthing and just how long is that going to take.

My thoughts are that they will not revisit FW (unless goons pull another genius exploit of course) for a long long time, which while things are stuck is going to be tough on the people in FW that are not enjoying their play time.

Just keep in mind that FW had a healthy pvp/fun track record before inferno turned into pve-sovcursions.



There isn't any question as to whether they are going to work more on Faction Warfare. They are, whether you believe them or not :) Posts like this just derail productive conversations, lets stop with the does-CCP-really-care nonsense and just stick to actually talking about the issues at hand.

If you're concerned with FW becoming more like "pve-sovcursions", I STRONGLY suggest you head over to the Dev-monitored thread for NPC feedback, the consensus in the FW community right now is actually to mandate MORE PvE, not less. I personally loathe the idea of forcing any FW pilot to PvE to participate in Sovereignty, it should be PvP in a perfect world. The problem is everyone is focused on asking for forced-PvE solutions, not spending their time coming up with an effective PvP-based solution instead.

If thats what the community wants, they'll very likely get that. CCP's already looking into ways to beef up the PvE-side and make it more challenging. But if shooting rats isn't how you want to take Sov, SPEAK UP, because there's far more people asking for forced-PvE right now and I'm very much afraid we'll get what we ask for during the Winter Expansion (which will include more FW iterations) and than be stuck with it, like you say.




How about you don't control what a person can and cannot or should not post? I expect you will not be voted in as a CSM in the future. My hope is that the CSM's are all removed and this whole thing goes back to feed back from the forums (community). Direct feed back instead of this pseudo-representative bullsh!t. Each player has his own views and they should be heard. I personally don't like this thread, but the dude can and should say what he feels. Now go f*ck yourself please. The dude saying what he feels or believes derails nothing.


- role play mode back on

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Lexmana
#157 - 2012-07-07 10:30:47 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
As I said to you earlier its kinda ridiculous to expect a situation in space that has amarr routinely outnumbering minmatar to lead to a situation where 80% of all systems remain in minmatar hands.

How do you come to the conclusion that Amarr outnumber Minmatar? Last I checked Minmatar had more members than Amarr and with current imbalance do you really think this will even out in the future?

But lets assume we really did outnumber you. Do you still think our thrashers are even against your faction cruisers?

I can see that you like the current situation and want to think that you are this good. But it is only self-serving bias and it actually makes you stupid.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#158 - 2012-07-07 12:43:43 UTC
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
good post pinky: however most of the problems WERE complained about BEFORE inferno AT the testing stage.

If they didnt listen then and we are stuck like this: will they listen when they can be bothered to do somthing and just how long is that going to take.

My thoughts are that they will not revisit FW (unless goons pull another genius exploit of course) for a long long time, which while things are stuck is going to be tough on the people in FW that are not enjoying their play time.

Just keep in mind that FW had a healthy pvp/fun track record before inferno turned into pve-sovcursions.



There isn't any question as to whether they are going to work more on Faction Warfare. They are, whether you believe them or not :) Posts like this just derail productive conversations, lets stop with the does-CCP-really-care nonsense and just stick to actually talking about the issues at hand.

If you're concerned with FW becoming more like "pve-sovcursions", I STRONGLY suggest you head over to the Dev-monitored thread for NPC feedback, the consensus in the FW community right now is actually to mandate MORE PvE, not less. I personally loathe the idea of forcing any FW pilot to PvE to participate in Sovereignty, it should be PvP in a perfect world. The problem is everyone is focused on asking for forced-PvE solutions, not spending their time coming up with an effective PvP-based solution instead.

If thats what the community wants, they'll very likely get that. CCP's already looking into ways to beef up the PvE-side and make it more challenging. But if shooting rats isn't how you want to take Sov, SPEAK UP, because there's far more people asking for forced-PvE right now and I'm very much afraid we'll get what we ask for during the Winter Expansion (which will include more FW iterations) and than be stuck with it, like you say.






I would be hesistant to assume that the community wants more PVE simply because thats what is more vocal on the forums. Carebears and people who generally more concerned about their wallets tend to be more prolific posters on the forums and also tend to be more isolated as far as their views not representing any sort of large group but only themselves, where out of a 100 man PVP alliance, you might have only 1-2 representatives from that organization that actually posts on the forums.

If you want to go purely off the forums and the numbers of people who post, you would walk away with the picture that the community does not support non-consensual PVP. Cmon bro.

You have contacts within each militias leadership structures. Are you saying that rather than having a smaller number of people who actually understand game mechanics talk to you directly, it would be better and more effective to spam alliance mails telling mass numbers of people to post in that thread saying "no" to forced PVE and treating it as a ballot box instead?




Its difficult to get a consensus. I have heard allot of "militia leaders" make some real bad suggestions. Fact is most people do not spend allot of time talking about or thinking through game design when they are online. They are pretty much telling people where to warp and whether to jump or not.

I don't think we will get much in the way of consensus but at least on the forums ideas can actually discussed instead of just eve-mailed to some "leader" and then promoted because "that sounds cool."


I agree with hans if people want faction war to change then we need to start getting behind ideas. If they have no clue what to do and don't post about it, then its better hans doesn't go seeking them out and asking for their input.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#159 - 2012-07-07 12:48:53 UTC
I think Hans just needs to make the decision that he is going to support making faction war pvp because that is an idea he ran on. If people don't like that, then they can vote for someone else next election. But at least people will know that when they vote for hans he will push for things he said he would push for.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#160 - 2012-07-07 13:21:10 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
As I said to you earlier its kinda ridiculous to expect a situation in space that has amarr routinely outnumbering minmatar to lead to a situation where 80% of all systems remain in minmatar hands.

How do you come to the conclusion that Amarr outnumber Minmatar? Last I checked Minmatar had more members than Amarr and with current imbalance do you really think this will even out in the future?

But lets assume we really did outnumber you. Do you still think our thrashers are even against your faction cruisers?

I can see that you like the current situation and want to think that you are this good. But it is only self-serving bias and it actually makes you stupid.



I think we both know that plex-leeching alts don't really count (and plenty of them are operated by the amarr on the quiet!)

But I am speaking of confrontations in space, that I've been part of, where I've seen the Amarrian side quite capable of significantly outnumbering the Minmatar fleets. Now maybe that won't always be the case - who knows, but I do know on current evidence of capability the Minmatar do not have a fleet advantage of 5-1 over the 24th (which is what you'd logically expect to be the case to see 80% domination of FW systems).

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom