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Self destructing and you.

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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#61 - 2012-07-05 12:47:58 UTC
Archdaimon wrote:
Maybe like a special pos bashing module and subsystem for t3?

Something like this would spice up low class wormholes nicely as well. Especially c4's that are far enough from k-space to discourage invaders from ferrying large BC/BS fleets in but also immune to capital ships, so in c4's horribly fluffy carebears can keep their failfit poses up infinitely, since no one ever bothers to attack them there. In c5's we have cleaning crews removing failbears with dreadnoughts and c1-c3 have k-space logistics for invading smaller ships.

The idea has some merit. Let us investigate it further.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#62 - 2012-07-05 12:51:39 UTC
No. It's easy enough to invade lower class wormholes. It's also 20x easier to get a way in via k-space. I would call that a fair trade off for not having caps.

No trolling please
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#63 - 2012-07-05 13:51:06 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Archdaimon wrote:
Maybe like a special pos bashing module and subsystem for t3?

Something like this would spice up low class wormholes nicely as well. Especially c4's that are far enough from k-space to discourage invaders from ferrying large BC/BS fleets in but also immune to capital ships, so in c4's horribly fluffy carebears can keep their failfit poses up infinitely, since no one ever bothers to attack them there. In c5's we have cleaning crews removing failbears with dreadnoughts and c1-c3 have k-space logistics for invading smaller ships.

The idea has some merit. Let us investigate it further.


Making pos bashes easier thru a module is a doble blade sword. It could make it so easy than the simple fact of putting a pos may be a waste of time and effort, only viable to big alliances (who would be the new goons of wspace?).
Now if you say that this mod prevents pos and pos mod from sd you may be after something.
There are a lot of options.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-07-05 16:28:31 UTC
there are pos bassing modules, called dreadnaughts. pos's arent the problem in the fortress systems. its just the massive amount of caps and other ships the inhabitant has, and you have to counter. the only way to make this easier would be to actually give a way to move more mass or a lot of mass more often to a single system, an idea i dont like.

@archdaimon: of all alliances you should know that with time and patience any amount of force can be seeded. how many caps did you lot have when invading power of two? 20 ish? and another 140 pilots?

i still think its simply the lack of any incentive to undertake something that massive that makes the fortress systems not worth considering invading
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#65 - 2012-07-05 16:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Archdaimon
I'm not saying the module is a good idea. Just a random suggestion.

Imo, the gameplay involved would be one that it took close to, if not the same effort to be able to throw someone out, as they put in defending their system.

At the same time this feature should not make it easier for the bigger alliances to blob smaller ones.

Ie. We want to keep mass limits, but we want to be able to bring enough people to a fight to deal with what people have got in a system.

I am fully aware that none of the bigger alliances relies on their pos for defense.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-07-05 16:51:23 UTC
If a pilot initiates a self-destruct while other pilots are already attacking the ship, that should generate a kill-mail for the attackers. It's a clear case of 'only self-destructing to deny the attackers their kill record and loot'. I am fine with the loot denial, but the kill-record should be preserved, as the pilot would not have SDed UNLESS he were under attack. Pretty much just seems to be carebears and 'I'm bad at PvP so I'll just passive-aggressive deny the killers their trophy' that don't want.
Cryostassiss
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2012-07-05 17:45:19 UTC
I have no problem with self destructing while inside POS, even if they are **** caged and about to die. I mean for a point in time that pilot in the POS WAS safe from harm for a period of time.

The problem I have is when cap pilots are out of their POS, clearly in harms way, for instance doing a sleeper site, and they SD as soon as a decent sized gang lands on them.

They took the risk/reward gamble of WH space and they lost it, and now they have the option to take the wimp's way out when the aggressing pilots have usually taken lost of time to set up the appropriate fleet and laid in wait for the appropriate time. They take the cowards way out, and now there will be no record of them ever being in that ship during said fight and only the pod will be proof.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#68 - 2012-07-05 18:47:20 UTC
Anchorable structure that stops or delays the sd timer on poses and capitals. It would give attackers the possibilitie of looting the things that they cannot destroy but it will be a little harder than a simple pos bash since they would have to defend that structure.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-07-05 21:00:11 UTC
Cryostassiss wrote:

They took the risk/reward gamble of WH space and they lost it, and now they have the option to take the wimp's way out when the aggressing pilots have usually taken lost of time to set up the appropriate fleet and laid in wait for the appropriate time. They take the cowards way out, and now there will be no record of them ever being in that ship during said fight and only the pod will be proof.

Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process.
Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic]

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#70 - 2012-07-05 21:15:25 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:

Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process.
Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic]


I still don't get why you are opposed to something reflecting accurately on a battle report. But if you really only want half the story to be shown, just say so.

No trolling please
Finalgear
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-07-05 21:54:20 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:

What function does this post serve?



You's Trollin' [read: pathetic]
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-07-05 22:08:06 UTC
Finalgear wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:

What function does this post serve?



You's Trollin' [read: pathetic]



Fight fire with fire.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#73 - 2012-07-05 22:13:16 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Finalgear wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:

What function does this post serve?



You's Trollin' [read: pathetic]



Fight fire with fire.

You about to sing this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xppm6-ICXg

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-07-05 23:00:04 UTC
Would you like me to try?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
#75 - 2012-07-06 03:29:05 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Cryostassiss wrote:

They took the risk/reward gamble of WH space and they lost it, and now they have the option to take the wimp's way out when the aggressing pilots have usually taken lost of time to set up the appropriate fleet and laid in wait for the appropriate time. They take the cowards way out, and now there will be no record of them ever being in that ship during said fight and only the pod will be proof.

Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process.
Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic]



I would like something explained to me here. See if I take a group of 7 people out and we engage a carrier with it being obvious we are going to kill it, how does this make us unworthy of the killmail. Whether it takes two minutes or twenty minutes, we still get the kill.

How does a low man slow kill equate to terrible piloting? Wouldnt the fact that a cap was in the position to be killed by only 7 subcaps mean that the cap pilot didn't deserve his/her cap? And that your piloting skills and attempts at saving face are delicious [read: pathetic]
Minmatar Citizen 121234
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-07-06 04:10:30 UTC
popping wormhole PoSes is too easy, they don't have the coordination or the ability to bring in reinforcements like null does. In null you can fall back to another system, in wormholes your just ******

if popping poses in wormholes was profitable in any way other then "i want this system"

then too many people would just run around ganking wormholes and then wormhole content would die

cry moar bitches but CCP wants people to have fun
Myz Toyou
Nekkid Inc.
#77 - 2012-07-06 07:18:01 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:

Yes they did, and they lost an expensive piece of hardware in the process.
Please keep crying over killmails you don't deserve, your tears are delicious [read: pathetic]


I still don't get why you are opposed to something reflecting accurately on a battle report. But if you really only want half the story to be shown, just say so.



He is probably the recruiter of an corp that discripes themself as allround corp including PVP ofc and fears that no new recruites ( to leech tax from ) gonna join up when it get public knowledge that Moonlit Raid`s main corp SD`s as soon as they see other ships on D-Scan.
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-07-06 10:56:11 UTC
Minmatar Citizen 121234 wrote:
popping wormhole PoSes is too easy, they don't have the coordination or the ability to bring in reinforcements like null does. In null you can fall back to another system, in wormholes your just ******

if popping poses in wormholes was profitable in any way other then "i want this system"

then too many people would just run around ganking wormholes and then wormhole content would die

cry moar bitches but CCP wants people to have fun


no idea what youre talking about do you?

we dont have the coordination? im pretty sure that we actually have a much harder job then the 0sec bears, and we manage. if you see it as a problem in wh space, learn to live there instead of making the statement

in wh space you just find a new wh and start over again. we can make isk like no tomorrow. even loosing 100b is a matter of 2-3 weeks to remake

noone "wants" a system, only in low class. the high class are mostly empty anyway so noone would ever fight over it

and we would run around ganking wormholes? even if every ship survived, wed still make more money running the anomalies in the same amount of time. and noone likes pos bashing, or keeping 48h of wh control that mostly means being bored out of your skull. or the days or weeks it take to seed caps, and the days after to get them out

sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about
Elisa Fir
Luminoctis
#79 - 2012-07-06 11:36:34 UTC
Komen wrote:
(...) just passive-aggressive deny the killers their trophy' that don't want.

Plain ans simple grieving; it is part of the game. There are so many forum post filled with tears of the grieved, this is just another one.

The usual pattern is: the more the forums are drowned in those tears, the more incentive for the griever to perform their grievous deed. I expect it to be nothing different this time around.
Cryostassiss
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2012-07-06 16:30:05 UTC
Minmatar Citizen 121234 wrote:
popping wormhole PoSes is too easy, they don't have the coordination or the ability to bring in reinforcements like null does. In null you can fall back to another system, in wormholes your just ******

if popping poses in wormholes was profitable in any way other then "i want this system"

then too many people would just run around ganking wormholes and then wormhole content would die

cry moar bitches but CCP wants people to have fun


I'm sorry, but I'm you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

How is popping POS'es easier in WH space? It isn't.

1. In wormholes you have to deal with mass, meaning you have to control how many ships can go in to allow mass to let them back out, which means you can't bring a huge f***ing blob to a POS and smash it in a matter of minutes.

It also means you can't bring a ton of BS's to quickly take down a POS.

2. In wormholes you can't light a cyno and bring in a huge dread fleet to either RF or kill a tower in a matter of minutes.

3. If you are bashing a POS in a WH, you have to idea how many people are in system, and hence you don't know if you're being watched or about to get jumped until they appear on D-Scan in which case you might already be bubbled.(Sure, this can be prevented if you have a scout on the wormhole, but what if a K162 appears in system and you don't know about it?) In null if you see a local spike you can GTFO without you even seeing their shiptypes.

4. If wormhole control is established then getting into the wormhole can be nearly impossible.

5. Wormhole effects can f*** up your POS bashing if you get targeting range decrease, etc (Then again WH effects can speed it up)