Assembly Hall

The ability for neutrals to remote repair war targets in high sec is undoubtedly a game mechanic that is constantly exploited by greifer corps allowing them to utilize neutral alts, or allies to repair them when engaged in combat and gain a very VERY unfair advantage.

It seems to me, and I know many people who agree, that the use of this is a game exploit that is parallel to cheating, and makes no sense when seriously thought about.

When in war, Concord allows enemies to fight eachother, but does not have any mechanic that eliminates neutrals from aiding these enemies. When by effect the war dec system and the isk involved in declaring war allows combat to occur.

The Concord Assembly has plenty of conventions that stipulate the various terms of engagement and yet does not have no balancing factor pertaining to neutral reps.

For instance a neutral can repair a war target and then when targeted just dock , because they do not get aggression, this allows then to work completely unassailable and causes pilots to lose more ships than is necessary. This is completely unfair.

Concord, being as they are the police, would not allow neutrals to fight without being paid to allow so, as is done using the war declaration system, the use of neutrals makes combatants aiding war targets avoid such isk penalties or the prolonged exposure to kill rights. In doing so this allows them to work alongside griefers, many being alts of the greifers themselves, and ruins the consistency of the war dec, and concord system, while making the griefing corps able to rack up kills without much chance of losing.

My opinion is that the neutrals should become unable to dock, as the war targets are once they use their reps, and that they should be concorded or forced to declare war immediately themselves as a result of the first action of repairing. This would both eliminate the neutral reps capability of being unassailable, and would also provide concord with the isk from these neutrals by forcing them to wardec, or die to concord.

With all due respect,

Please read this post.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=57644#post57644


Also, bumping them is not the best way since there range for rep is still pretty big.


-Viewtiful Joe

It's not an exploit.... and while it may feel unfair, you can do it too.... so it is fair....

I will concede its moderately unsportsmanlike...

Also, are you aware they are changing crimewatch??????

This is the system that handles all the flags on who you can and can't shoot in highsec... There are SEVERAL changes coming with the new crimewatch system that remove most of the problems associated with Neutral RR.

1.) RR'ing an aggressed player will give you an aggression timer equal to their current timer... so, you won't have neutral RR gate/station hugging, as if they RR your target, you can shoot them down before they can redock (assuming you have the firepower to do so).

2.) They might give neutrals assisting in a war a suspect flag... this would allow everyone to shoot them...

CCP is well aware of the Nuetral RR issues, and they are making steps to balance them...

Thank you very much, I was not aware of the changes comming. Thought, If I ECM them or blow them, They can still dock up and switch ship. There is no way for me to solo kill a war target that is alone.




With all due respect,

If i bump them away , and blow them, they can still come back with in a minute switch for pvp ship and come blow me,. I will no longer be facing 1 person but actually 2 and usually that is not something that you can survive.

Thats fair.

However not all logis are ready made combat pilots.

Also, if you pop em far enough off station they have to warp away (or slow boat it lol) and to a station that has a useful combat ship just to be able to join the battle.

And, you were facing two anyway with the repper (just one wasn't shooting) so its at least the same odds of winning.



There are ways to deal with neutral reps.

Now, as a vulture I would love logis to get docking timers. Then they woudl die and I would get more loot (though since CCP let war deck evasion slide, pew pew has been dropping, and the new mechanics haven't helped much). But this isn't about what I would like, rather about what is needed. And as it stands, there are ways to deal with logis that doesn't require any dev time.

Edit: noticed another poster mentioned the possible crimewatch changes... if CCP wants to change this, I wouldn't argue at all. Their choice, and means more loot .

Makes sense to me - anyone aiding in a war that does not concern them (from a Concord perspective) should either aggress, or be nailed by Concord.

If these reps want to participate without consequence, they should be forced to pay for a war along with everyone else. High-sec warfare would actually be entertaining if there weren’t so many alt cowards hanging off stations spamming dock buttons.

Null-sec for the win!

I haven't encountered this yet, but as told in other posts, seems like there are some valid tactics to counter that.

However, it's true that sometimes people with alts... make me unhappy. Sometimes seems like the best way to play EVE is to pay for 2 or more accounts in order to have an advantage over those who can/want pay only a single account, like me.

Wasn't the Wardec revamp supposed to fix this?

If they use neutral logi, bring a falcon fitted to jam them. One falcon can easily shut down two logis. If they give up their tank for ECCM, a pair of tornadoes will demolish them nicely. The best part is, falcons and sniper tornadoes will continue to be useful even after the logi have docked up or been destroyed.

CCP need to fix logi agression transfer. That would solve this problem entirely. But they've wrapped that into CrimeWatch, which appears to now be scheduled for Soon (tm), so you'd best learn how to deal with it.

If they have nuetral RR, they are NOT alone.... so the real issue is not Neutral RR, (especially when crimewatch is fixed and they gain aggression timers). The real issue is that it's very hard to identify battle-changing Not-Really-Nuetral RR'ers from the harmless neutrals in a system....

What you need, is a method to identify them... I imagine this would take a few components:

Something like battle reports that list the logistics pilots involved, so your intel gatherers can create a list of associates... (check)
and
A better contact system, that allows you to associate rogue OOC pilots with a corp/alliance... Create a new icon that makes identifying these pilts as easy as looking for a skull on the intel window...
and
A longer-term consequence associated with nuetral RR.... Like if you give assistance to a war target, you become a war target for a week or two.