Warfare & Tactics

As much as we have an upper hand in the US TZ right now, I would say that you guys have the same numbers advantage in the EU TZ. If would be nice if the numbers split was a bit more even along time zones, but not much you can do there since EVE has always been a timezones/numbers game. Delve 2012 has also seriously hurt numbers as of late due to many Fweddit toons and FCs being nullsec alts.

There was talk about cashing out at Tier 2, but ultimately it was decided against since double prices are still pretty brutal and its better to just wait.

I admit there is some QQing, but OP does bring up some valid points. Many of the points might be things that should be worth doing something about rather than posting on the forums about, BUT a lot of the issues regarding attracting new players into FW are valid. I think that most players should learn how to fund their PVP independently, its disappointing that new players who were attracted to FW under the premise of being able to fund their PVP by doing FW are forced into joining the Minmatar side if they want to enjoy any of the new game mechanics. Before we decided to do FW, I remember reading Susan's blog and getting pumped up about the new changes. I shared these changes with my alliance mates and it got them excited as well. We joined the Amarr because they seemed like they needed the most help and it was disappointing to find out that all the new changes to FW we were excited about didn't really do anything for us although the PVP action by far makes it all worthwhile. I think for the sake of the FW system as a whole there needs to be some incentive for the losing side or evening factors because new players who want to take advantage of the increased incentivization shouldn't have their choices limited into joining an already winning side.

check how many minutes it takes to earn the LP for both.

Pardon my ignorance but I was not aware that any of the four systems in question (Sifilar, Raa, Saidu & Haras) had stations in them...

The system control mechanics have become much more important than previous iterations. If a milltia wants to be successful a new factional warfare eviroment. More corporations/alliance in said milltias need to base in low security space. Why? Whelp!

My corporation can cover a whole constellation. That's 5 -7 systems. It's alot more convenient for an entity to defend a small area of influence. Compared to trying to contest all factional warfare systems.

Start organizing and focusing corporations and alliances towards key constellations. preferably away from the main trade hubs (Rens & Amarr). Let the larger alliances and corporations like Fweddit hold and engage around the main pipe (Kedema - Amamake). Once 5 or more Amarr corporations control thier little islands away from the main pipe. The outlook wont seem so grim. Hopefully you'll get more corporations and alliances willing to do the same.

Gallente milltia do this to a certain extent. Doubt it was their intent, but they're not able to match Caldari's abillity to PLEX. What they have done is controled key systems @ the center of Caldari and Gallente factional warfare. Caldari milltia can't displace them. It's so convenient for them to hold a constellation and Gallente have superior pvp corporations/alliances @tm. Making removing them difficult.

The biggest and most annoying mechanic in my opinion is the whole not being able to dock in a system controled by another milltia. It forces milltia corporations/alliances who base in low security space to fight for thier system. Otherwise moving/logistics is a pain.


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You know there is a logical explanation for that situation Cearain. Pretty much everyone who had LP points stored up cashed out at 5 and spent everything. Its senseless to spend lps boosting random systems again until there is a critical mass of 1m LP+ militia people wanting to cash out again and then you'll probably see the tiers do a short term spike to 4.

Tier 5 always was a pretty extreme result and was only possible due to the near total collapse of the enemy territory prior to the patch. I get the impression CCP didn't intend any one side to get or hit tier5 outside of once in the blue moon - and certainly not in a situation where both sides are relatively-evenly matched in space.

When you look at Amarr numbers of fighters vs Minmatar numbers of fighters it varies between 1-1-1.5 to one (generally in the Amarrian favour at the moment) That would suggest that the Amarrians should be able to take and hold at least 50% of the warzone and most likely both sides should achieve a fairly reliable tier 3 (especially at cash out time)

Expecting the Minmatar to get tier 5 regularly when the numbers in space are even (or mostly in amarrian favour) is a bit of a ridiculous position to take.

All the Goon exploit achieved was to save the TLF a few million LP points to push the required numbers of systems (they had already taken) to 5. But only a fool expected that situation to last long into Inferno because its literally inconceivable that the Amarr side with more pilots in space would fail to quickly retake a large proportion of their pre inferno lost systems.

I have to point out to you that the Goons did not plex, either offensively or defensively. They merely upgraded systems we'd already captured. After Minmatar captured almost every available Amarr system, there was nothing left for us to do except defensively cap plexes for standings (lord knows we had enough LP). It's true that the buffer helped, but all the withdrawal have Goonswarm has done is lowered our average time spent in Tier4 and given Amarr a snowball's chance in hell of capping our systems.

But other than providing a bit of a buffer for our systems, you Amarr cannot cite your failures on Goonswarm interference. If you actually bothered to, IDK, read up on what happened, you'd realize that Goonswarm had a minimal impact on FW, and certainly did not contribute to Minmatar taking Amarr systems, which we've been doing with impunity even after Goonswarm pulled out.

Now that the Goons have pulled it, it stands to reason that Amarr will have an easier time plexing down systems, since Goonswarm will no longer be artificially buffering said systems.

The fact that Minmatar kicked your butts the past month has less to do with Goonswarm donating LP and more to do with the fact that Amarr's militia is a joke. You have a better chance now that the Fweddiblob has arrived.

There are millions of lp going to minmatar every time a system flips. Not including millions the minmatar in gallente space are getting as well as the hordes of mission runners. The lp doesn't run out. But when ccp finally balances the npcs just a tiny bit, we already see the expectations go from tier 5 to tier 4. (And is that even your own admission you anticipate it going to tier 3?)

I think this is really pretty telling how much of an advantage your militia got by the npc imbalance and somewhat from the goons.



Yes that is true, but what we now are finding out is that without Goons, minmatar lack even this minimal amount of organization to achieve a higher good for their own militia. (not that this is even on the table any longer as your militia no longer has as large of a plexing advantage) As you say above, tier 4 is the top goal you are aiming at on your own. Also now with even the minor changes to npcs (which don't even make the war close to balanced) you guys won't be able to get enough systems to get to tier 5.

I'm just making it clear up front, why minmatar succeeded in the past. Your decline is going to track very closely with ccp balancing these npcs. I'm calling this now so that after CCP truly balances out the npcs and minmatars failcascade is a sealed deal I won't be accused of making this up after the fact. All of your militias accomplishments were due to this imbalance and time will prove it. (assuming ccp does actually continue to balance the npcs)



Yeah right we have more pilots in space because everyone wants to join the side with the worst lp store.

Its not that amarr all of a sudden got allot more pilots in space after our lp store became worthless. Its that now that ccp is actually taking some action to reduce the incredible npc advantage minmatar has always enjoyed, everyone can see the minmatar militia wilt and lower expectations.

The only real change has been goons no longer supporting you and the npc balance tweak. All the other mechanics remained the same. We all continue to get lp everytime we sneeze and you guys even get about 10% more lp than we do for the same sneeze.

When the level 5 cashout happened I think we were close to the absolutely minimum number of systems required to achieve that. You guys only need a couple of systems to make level 5 actually impossible. As I said to you earlier its kinda ridiculous to expect a situation in space that has amarr routinely outnumbering minmatar to lead to a situation where 80% of all systems remain in minmatar hands.

But the main point you neglected to address was that there is no need to maintain a high level of system upgrades unless people collectively decide its going to be a cash out day, And most people have already cashed out. Now sure, the mission runners and offensive plexers will soon get their millions again and when they do I expect short term peaks to tier IV to optimize the cash out again - but there is no benefit to maintaining tier IV at other times in the vast majority of systems.

Only way this changes is if CCP did something to make the system upgrades a bit more exciting.

Nenna and Nisuwa are currently both 0%.

As far as Rakapas and SLAPD's relocation go, it's unfortunate that the system discourages the spreading out of home bases and instead gets people to all lump together in one or two systems. But in the end SLAPD only had a US TZ presence and the rest of the time the system got plexed.

Ah well Cearain, while I continue to disagree about a number of things you say, I can understand and even empathize with the anger you feel at the way CCP has left some long-term imbalance in place (mostly from pre inferno I must say). I dunno, sometimes it does probably seem like we're playing the wrong game - but sadly for all our sense of natural justice there really isn't an alternative to an open pvp space opera game.

I guess the way you feel about faction war is similar to the way I feel about the moon-mineral exploitation in 0.0 that's led to a distorted and devalued reality there in the player-led sandbox (or more recently in the fiasco of the 1.1 wardec changes to benefit large alliances alone).

Guess what I'm trying to say is that I understand that you are angry with the game and its easy to target minmatar (as those players who have benefited in your eyes from the imbalance) don't get too bent out of shape there - not everyone is your enemy on an ooc level.