Missions & Complexes

I do L4 missions in Calderi space, but I'm looking for a good Amarr ship to do them in... Lately I've been running them in a Legion, but looking for a change of pace. I've wanted an Abby, but I can't seem to find a way at all to get them cap stable, or anywhere close for that matter, and the fitting on my Legion, I get hurt to bad I have to warp out... Any feedback would be appreciated =D

EDIT: Also, my budget would 600m... Something that I could reasonably fit within the price range would be perfect! Also something to look for, for a future goal would be great!

NApoc:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119507

Abbadon:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=123756&find=unread

NGeddon could also work as it can actually do kinetic damage (sentry drones), which is kind of important considering how often you likely draw missions against Guristas. Legion definitely isn't the way to go.

Happen to have a good Abaddon fit? I can't find any good ones that aren't outdated as hell...

why would you want to mission in caldari space with an amarr boat?

This one is easy.

Dont fly amarr ships if you mission in caldari space. They are just bad. Go to amarr space. Limitation to EM/T dmg is just very very bad versus guristas.

But best choice is prolly navy geddon since you can get decent DPS from heavy drones.

GL

I probably spend more time in amarr boats than any other in caldari space... tons of blood/sansha/merc/drone/EoM missions.

not to mention Guristas extra/The assault can both be blitzed and you don't spend a whole lot of time shooting guristas, Guristas spies/Intercept the saboteurs are mostly small crap and on small crap it doesn't matter much what you shoot with them. duo of death only has 2 ships.

angels extra is probably the biggest problem. worlds collide might be a bit slow, and I can't remember the last time I did vengeance in an amarr boat (but then again it has a lot of small stuff, I'm running one right now and Rachen seems to be going down with 2 guns on my paladin, which is right around 500 dps with IN Multi, although it is taking a while, and kill confirmed!)

start: [ 2012.07.03 04:10:31 ] (combat) Your Tachyon Beam Laser II lightly hits Rachen Mysuna, doing 365.3 damage.
end: [ 2012.07.03 04:16:10 ] (combat) Your Tachyon Beam Laser II places an excellent hit on Rachen Mysuna, inflicting 639.0 damage.


this is how I flew the abaddon with med skills. depending on how you feel about cap stability you can drop a cap recharger for something else and still be mostly stable, and/or get cap implants they will help. I like beams just so you can get the extra range you can't get with pulse I find a lot of mission action happens over 50km. with t1 guns inside about 30km the pulse apoc will win. if you know you will be fighting angels or mercs or something short range might make sense to swap to a megapulse fit. on most ships I like cap injector setups but DAMN the abaddon eats a ton of cap. it does need a lot to get stable, and one cap mod tends to be the difference between ~3m of cap and perma run at 50%

[Abaddon, Beams pve]
Large Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Prefer the Navy Apoc's utility to the Navy Geddon's ability to carry unbonused sentries. NavPoc's range bonus is key. Regardless of raw DPS numbers (and it's no slouch, even in comparison to the highest DPS BS), it's a simple matter to hit mission rats at ranges of 90km with Megapulse II and Scorch. All that extra time you spend AB'ing in the other boats is time you spend actually applying DPS and completing your mission more quickly in a NavPoc.

NP dishes out 700 DPS at 80-90km, with conflag + Drones it's nearer 1000DPS at 30-35km. Using a similar fit Geddon you're AB'ing for an eternity to get into range to dish that out, even with the Sentries.

I've used every Amarr BS excepting the Paladin for lvl 4's, and nothing gets through them as quickly or efficiently as the NavPoc. Not even the Nav Geddon, and I even suspect the Pally is actually slower at simple killing, even though it will save you time due to the tractoring and salvage.

Abba is severely hampered as a Lvl 4 boat because of its inherent issues with cap stability or near stability. Yes, you can make it cap stable with decent skills, but then the user friendliness suffers due to having to compromise in order to achieve this. The resist bonus is nice, but then if you want to try and stick beams on it for long range damage protection you have to make sacrifices elsewhere which again compromise tank or mobility. You can stick Megapulse on it, but then NavPoc, Apoc, and both Geddons do MegaPulse lvl 4's better so why bother?.

Overall, my preference for an Amarr mission BS is

1. NavPoc.
2 = Apoc, Nav Geddon
3. Geddon (for certain missions where the rats are all sub-50km).
4. Forget it and go get a Domi instead.

Your point about cost is of course perfectly valid, but in terms of what is the most efficient no, NavPoc is ultimately a more proficient lvl 4 boat.

You do realize that apoc doesn't have a dps bonus, right?

Even with Scorch and lower dmg long range Amar sentries to match, N. geddon still do
-1.1k dps at 65km

Compared to N. Apoc's
-700 dps at 80km, or
-1k dps at 30km with Conflag and drones

25% rop bonus translates to an actual 33% increase in dps.
Lacking 50% drone bonus means the drones still do 2/3 of dps they do out of a domi.

You're trading a lot of dps for 37.5% extra range, whose usefulness is situational.

Yep, even with no DPS bonus it's still a better mission boat simply due to it's flexibility and superior range.

Again, while you're AB'ing towards that wave which spawns anywhere from 70-110km away in your Geddon, or waiting for them to come into range, NavPoc is already killing them.

It's not the fastest Amarr boat for ALL lvl 4 missions, but IMO it's superior in any mission with rats at extreme range, and at least the equal to any other Amarr BS in most missions with exclusively shorter range targets, ergo, over the entire range of missions it's the best lvl 4 Amarr boat, certainly the most user friendly.


The massive cap on the Apoc class means you don't have to concern yourself so much with bells and whistles to prevent your cap emptying itself practically as soon as you switch on those lasers, so, it's perfectly possible to fit an Apoc class with AB, tracking comp, enough tank to deal with any lvl 4, spend two rig slots on Energy Wep rigs, and still have the thing in a Cap positive state. It's the extra flexibility over boats which practically demand 3x CCC rigs which makes the NavPoc.

There is no 'Best' simply because every mission is not the same. This is the whole point, the Navpoc can do things the NavGeddon simply can not, meanwhile there's nothing the NavGeddon can do which the Navpoc can't, excepting the slight increase in DPS at shorter ranges.

It's not a case of Apoc's being easier to spec for for low SP characters, they're a much more user friendly boat for characters of all abilities due to their superior capacitor, multitude of possible fitting variations, as well as the ability to apply DPS at ranges beyond that of any other mission viable Amarr BS.

You seem to be obsessed with the Geddon's DPS, which is an attribute I'm not disputing, only that the extra DPS only comes into play in a certain selection of missions, meanwhile the NavPoc's extra flexibility (in my opinion) more than compensates for that slight bump in DPS once you take into account the range of possible mission types which you're going to encounter assuming you're a hardcore lvl 4 runner.

Again, there is no flat out 'best' at all the jobs required, as each tool has different strengths, the NavPoc simply has a wider range of applications.

You're correct about the fact that there are few missions with rats 110km away. There are a few, but there are many, many more with rats at ranges between 70-90km, the NavPoc has no problem dispatching these from the warp in, whereas your Geddon's effective DPS bump is entirely irrelevant here. At very close ranges the EFT DPS isn't even a true reflection of what actually happens in respect of the discrepancies between the two boats in any case. Your paper DPS with Sentries is of course higher, but then sentries aren't all that great at tracking at close ranges, even if the target is fairly sizeable. You're not going to be carrying both Sentries and Ogres, so you are then faced with the option of dumping Mediums or Lights on the target, which brings your effective DPS back down to not that dissimilar a figure to the NavPoc.

As I said in the first post, I've missioned in both, and while both boats have their individual strongpoints and merit, over all teh possible scenarios you encounter in lvl4's the Navpoc is the more efficient.

BTW, with MegaPulse and Scorch your falloff is miniscule. At 20km beyond optimal you're lucky to even hit, nevermind 50% DPS.