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Vagabond Ammo Question
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Akila Rose
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-10-08 23:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Akila Rose
Just a quick question about ammo and damage. My friend and I were having a discussion about using different types of ammo for the vagabond. I prefer using barrage because of the insane falloff, but he prefers using faction (republic fleet) for the increase in damage. For my skills and fit, I get a falloff of roughly 39KM and for his fit and skills, he gets around 25KM.

Now here is the question. If we are both orbiting a target (for the sake of this question, a stationary cruiser) at 22KM and using 220 Vulcan II's... in theory... wouldnt I be getting more applied damage because I am near the middle of the "falloff damage spectrum" (dont really know what else I could call it) instead of him being near the end of his falloff. He has more potential damage output than me, but I should be doing more applied damage considering the differences in our falloff. OR would it be about the same? I hope that made sense to the people who know what Im talking about.

Lastly, which ammo type do you prefer to use in a vagabond?
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#2 - 2011-10-08 23:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
Depends on the fit and situation really - with the fit I use (2 TEs, 2 Gyrostabs, 220 vulcans) they'd break even at ~18 km given the situation you proposed, with an advantage for barrage at higher ranges and higher damage potential at closer ranges for faction ammo - this pretty much wont change with transversals despite barrage's tracking malus as long as both ships are cruisers.

Of course this doesn't take barrage damage profile and enemy resists into account.

Personally, I usually carry both, depending on what I fight...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Ravenclaw2kk
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-09 03:38:51 UTC
Akila Rose wrote:
Just a quick question about ammo and damage. My friend and I were having a discussion about using different types of ammo for the vagabond. I prefer using barrage because of the insane falloff, but he prefers using faction (republic fleet) for the increase in damage. For my skills and fit, I get a falloff of roughly 39KM and for his fit and skills, he gets around 25KM.

Now here is the question. If we are both orbiting a target (for the sake of this question, a stationary cruiser) at 22KM and using 220 Vulcan II's... in theory... wouldnt I be getting more applied damage because I am near the middle of the "falloff damage spectrum" (dont really know what else I could call it) instead of him being near the end of his falloff. He has more potential damage output than me, but I should be doing more applied damage considering the differences in our falloff. OR would it be about the same? I hope that made sense to the people who know what Im talking about.

Lastly, which ammo type do you prefer to use in a vagabond?


The problem with barrage is that it has rather high kinetic damage and low on the rest. You really want to be throwing EM/Thermal at shield ship and then Explosive at armour tankers.

Barrage gets better range, but will only work better than specific ammunition on some ships, so it's very situational.

I like to add an extra TE on my vagas and use faction ammo, the extra damage of the ammo at range makes up for the loss in dps and the extra tracking on faction ammo over dps makes a difference too.
Mara Abraham
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-10-09 18:55:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Abraham
Good day, Akila Rose:

Do not orbit with a Vagabond, Cynabal, or similar type ship.

I typically have Barrage M pre-loaded (unless i know the situation), and carry with me (in cargo) RFE, RFP, RFF, RFD or RFT (the last two enhanced tracking ammo).

What I use depends on the situation. Is the primary solo or in a gang of what composition. Am I solo or in a gang of what composition.

If I'm solo going against a gang where it makes sense to stay and fight, I'll be aligned to a celestial typically taking me away from the gang, picking off their tackle and what not using Barrage M.

I'm I'm in a small gang that has dedicated tackle with scram web, I might approach, keep at range, or align to a celestial that will being me close at an angle; and then use the appropriate ammo type where the target is least resistant to the ammo in question.

Thank you.

--- Mara Abraham

  • http://www.factionalwarfare.info/
  • http://evepiratelife.com/
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#5 - 2011-10-11 13:52:31 UTC
Never orbit in a Vagabond or you're dead meat to anyone with their wits about them.

Bear in mind that Barrage has a much lower tracking than the other ammo so it should only be used at range or when you know the transversal is low on the target. Barrage works well if you're kiteing someone and has a nicer damage curve than the t1 ammo outside of about 16km (tracking aside) so it is a good choice if you're planning on being at the edge of point range.

Last time I flew one I flew it with EMP, Fusion, Plasma and Barrage ammo. I think I stuck with Barrage in the guns because it seemed I would start at range but then I would switch to EMP/Fus/Plasma according to the target tank.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Akila Rose
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-10-11 14:39:50 UTC
So it seems like most people have barrage loaded and have the other types in the cargo to use depending on the situation.

Now I feel like a noob cause when I fly a vagabond i generally orbit at the very beginning and manually fly around depending on the target and situation with success and the seldom loss... Ive never aligned to anywhere unless I am in a bad situation and scrammed trying to get away...

So I hate to change the subject, but what is the proper way to fly a vaga? Majority of the time i am in a small gang and I rarely solo now a days. In the gangs I am in, we have a dedicated tackler most of the time and Ill put a point on the target just in case.

Thanks in advance and for all the replies so far. I am always eager to learn more about my favorite ship.
vlewandowski
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-19 12:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: vlewandowski
What do you mean guys by "never orbit with a vagabond"? Never orbit at 500m or at 20km?

I did some tests and I can say that "orbit at 20km" someone who trying to approach you or get away is much smoother movement of your ship than when you "keep at range at 20km". So by "kiting" I understand orbiting target at end of point range. Of course, I'm talking about 1v1.

What do you mean by "kiting"? Align to celestial, back to target, back to celestial?
Mara Abraham
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-10-19 16:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Abraham
Good day:

The Vagabond, Cynabal, and related ships should not orbit via the orbit button.

You pick a celestial that will either bring you in on an angle between 30 and 60 degrees, or one that will take you out. In either case, maintaining the range where you will do the most good until the fight is over or you need to bounce or you need to get out.

You want to be aligned for several reasons:

* To get out if you have to get out -- stay out of scram, web range.
* To be in a position where you can do the most dps

Read http://fleeonsight.blogspot.com/2011/09/moving-right-way.html in terms of manually piloting. #3 is what can happen if you orbit (in addition to decreased DPS, you put yourself in jeopardy of being caught).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JKnTlZ9hoY and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWFMuDE-364 are good videos (the 1st one done from the Vagabond point of view) of nano kiting, target selection, destroying wrecks that targets can use against friendlies, and using wrecks against targets.

Thank you.

--- Mara Abraham

  • http://www.factionalwarfare.info/
  • http://evepiratelife.com/
vlewandowski
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-10-19 18:54:04 UTC
Thank you, Mara Abraham. I'll train in manual piloting with my corpmates.