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DED Complexes in High/low Sec - other recommendations?
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Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-07-03 18:10:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Citizen Smif
How profitable are DED Complexes in High & Low sec and are they worth doing? I have little experience and knowledge of them so any info or links you can offer would be great :)

I currently have 2 characters on 2 accounts; A can fly Tengu, Drake & Basilisk, B can fly all T1 Minmatar ships, Loki, HAC. With this set up what would you recommend doing if not DED complexes?

Cheers,

Smif

*Update at bottom*
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#2 - 2012-07-03 22:38:56 UTC
Dual box plexing in high sec, 1 in a Tengu in Caldari space, 1 in a Loki in Minmatar space.

Run Watches and DED 4/10s.

Get rich.
Sir Livingston
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-07-04 00:55:29 UTC
Go to low-sec, run 6/10s...if you can find them, loot a-type medium deadspace modules, get rich or die trying

Sci-fi games as played by an earthbound human in the 21st century http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#4 - 2012-07-04 01:02:40 UTC
Loki + Tengu (1 of these set up for scanning) should tear through anything in losec, and the escalations that go to null from the unrated sites.

Use cloak/MWD manoeuvre in lo, Inti-nullifier + covops subs for both in null...Even with the gimped DPS, the total damage output between them should make it almost too easy.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-07-04 01:16:42 UTC
Just had a quick look around for some fits, and there seems to be some debate.. Any recommended fits for high sec Loki & Tengu for complexes?

I think to start with I'd stick with the 4/10 idea until I get the hang of dual boxing etc, in the past I've always had these toons on the same account Shocked
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2012-07-04 03:08:59 UTC
For high sec?

Cheap Loki:


[Loki, mxzf exploration]
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Stasis Webifier II
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Medium Shield Booster II
Codebreaker I
10MN Afterburner II

Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Hobgoblin II x5

More expensive Loki:


[Loki, exploration high sec]
Tracking Enhancer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

10MN Afterburner II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Gistum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion M

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I

Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5

I don't use a Tengu in high sec so... shrug. Fit it like any other exploration Tengu, just make sure you have a probe launcher and 6 missile launchers. Minimum 3 BCUs. Tank to taste.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-07-04 08:03:32 UTC
Citizen Smif wrote:
How profitable are DED Complexes in High & Low sec and are they worth doing?


It can be very profitable, but it depends on how much time you are able/willing to spend probing, and to some extend on how lucky you are. I've been spending around 3 hours a day for the last 5 days scanning, which have made a profit of around 2B isk, so it is definitely profitable.

When it comes to profits the main reason between hi-sec exploration and running level 4 mission, is that you don't get any, or very little, income from rewards, bounties or salvage. In the worst of times you can go 10-15 hours of game play without seeing any real profit, and if you only play 1 hour a day that can feel like a really long time.

Another difference between missions and exploration is that it is a bit more player vs. players, do not expect anyone to share a exploration site with you, even if you found it first. If you only play in the hours when server population peeks, you are going to find more cleared or occupied sites.

All in all there are some factors that influence the amount of isk you get from exploration, but try it for some weeks and see how it works out.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-07-04 13:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Citizen Smif
Thanks, I'll give them a go and hopefully eventually take it to low sec. Ty for the fit, I'll see if I can find something similar for a Tengu.
Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-07-04 20:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Citizen Smif
Right, I gave it a go today and I couldn't find any decent sites in highsec, the best I found was the site just above a Hideaway (the 3rd least difficult). Probably spent in total 6 hours doing this, perhaps scanned 50-60 systems. What are the odds of finding decent sites in high security space?

If it's relevant, I went from Minmatar Space - Ammatar - Ammar space, and at any time I was at least 8 jumps away from a trade hub, usually much further. Main things I found were Wormholes. Is this typical, or seriously bad luck? I'm thinking (maybe this is obvious) that High Sec isn't really designed to have decent sites for T3s etc.. but is low sec much better? Or is null the be-all and end-all of non-WH exploration?
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#10 - 2012-07-05 01:07:48 UTC
Citizen Smif wrote:
Right, I gave it a go today and I couldn't find any decent sites in highsec, the best I found was the site just above a Hideaway (the 3rd least difficult). Probably spent in total 6 hours doing this, perhaps scanned 50-60 systems. What are the odds of finding decent sites in high security space?

If it's relevant, I went from Minmatar Space - Ammatar - Ammar space, and at any time I was at least 8 jumps away from a trade hub, usually much further. Main things I found were Wormholes. Is this typical, or seriously bad luck? I'm thinking (maybe this is obvious) that High Sec isn't really designed to have decent sites for T3s etc.. but is low sec much better? Or is null the be-all and end-all of non-WH exploration?


The Random-Number God wasn't liking you. This will happen, it all averages out over time. It can be quite a bit of time, though--that's exploration, however: Epic feast, or a lot of famine. Switch regions and especially factions often, it helps.

IME, losec exploration--if you do all the radar, mag, and "fighting LADAR" sites whenever possible--will add up to a pretty good "wage," with occasionally epic drops from the DED 5/10s (Centum B-Type and/or True Sansha EANM from Sansha's, and Cynabal BPC from Angels, aaaawwwwww yeah, baby!), and the unrated plex' escalations that go to null (strong tank and at least "decent" DPS needed for their bosses, though). Haven't done--or even seen--the DED 6/10s, so no comment there, but they are supposed to be much more common in null than lo.

Hisec explo just isn't all that great, overall, although it's a great place to start and learn, which is really how it should be, IMHO.

The really "good" sites--DED 3/10, 4/10, (pirate) Watch, (pirate) Vigil with escalations--are just too rare, with too many people trying to "out-race" you to the boss/loot all the time (That smug twit in the MWD Tengu--there's always that smug twit in the MWD Tengu!). That, plus most of the Magnetometric sites in hisec are simply a waste of dBase space (CCP, buff those please), although hisec Radars are better and more consistent.

If you gas-mine, then you probably shouldn't bother with hisec gas-clouds. The "real" gas is out in deeper losec/null.


Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#11 - 2012-07-06 11:05:20 UTC
Citizen Smif wrote:
Right, I gave it a go today and I couldn't find any decent sites in highsec, the best I found was the site just above a Hideaway (the 3rd least difficult). Probably spent in total 6 hours doing this, perhaps scanned 50-60 systems. What are the odds of finding decent sites in high security space?

If it's relevant, I went from Minmatar Space - Ammatar - Ammar space, and at any time I was at least 8 jumps away from a trade hub, usually much further. Main things I found were Wormholes. Is this typical, or seriously bad luck? I'm thinking (maybe this is obvious) that High Sec isn't really designed to have decent sites for T3s etc.. but is low sec much better? Or is null the be-all and end-all of non-WH exploration?


You just had a very bad luck that day apparently.

Some tips :
- Don't go to Amarr space
- Stick to Minmatar or Caldari ( much higher respawns rate = much higher chance of finding new sites and better loot )
- Go to lowsec and do profession sites there ( lots of radars and mags )
- Eventually start doing lowsec combat sites ( DED4, 5, 6 + Outpost and both Annexes )

For me Nullsec exploration is actually worse than lowsec ( isk wise ), it's harder to find sites ( but there's less clutter ), more tank/dps needed to do sites effectively , troublesome travelling ( especially for expeditions - going 40 jumps through hostile space is painful and takes a lot of time ). The loot isn't always better ( some pieces are of course ). Doing some high end sites is extremely hard for soloing explorer and it will take exorbitant amount of time.
Of course if you are living in nullsec then its a whole different story.

It is a final frontier for explorers and I enjoy it greatly but isk wise - I made about 3 times more in the same time in lowsec ( Serp/Guri ). Maybe I'm just unlucky in null while being lucky in lowLol
Bibosikus
Air
#12 - 2012-07-06 16:04:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Highsec Radar sites are your bread & butter. Always run them. They can be worth 5-30m each in Decyptors and take 2 minutes to crack.

Use Deep Space Probes if you can. If you can't, put Astrometrics Level 5 at the top of your skill queue and read St. Mio's excellent guide here.

Highsec exploration is about speed, speed, speed. Speed in scanning, getting to gates, and killing the minimum needed to trigger the final Overseer. This is particularly relevant for Watches & Vigils. You have a lot of competition. Having an edge won't get you better loot drops, but it will get you more loot drops.

Pick a Region, fit your boat(s) accordingly with relevant resists and stick to it. Learn the sites, the triggers, and refine your fits to run them as quickly as possible.

Caldari and Minmatar space are the most crowded. Probes are like space lice. Gallente and Amarr are less so. Amarr is huge - so sites are spread more thinly. But then, so is the competition.

Consider moving to a highsec island. The are a few choice ones around, and the majority of highsec explorers have a pathological aversion to dipping their toes in lowsec so these islands are comparatively quiet. They also enjoy good spawn rates at the weekends.

The most efficient exploration setup is dual-boxing with a fleeted pair of T3's - dedicated scanner/booster and a dsp boat tagging along. Tengu & Loki for Minmatar, Tengu/Tengu for Caldari & Gallente, Legion/Legion for Amarr.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#13 - 2012-07-06 16:39:14 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
Highsec Radar sites are your bread & butter. Always run them.


Quote:
Highsec exploration is about speed, speed, speed..


These two statements are extremely conflicting.

The time you spend scanning that radar past 25% (after identifying its a radar), warping to that site, and doing that site, is time you could have spent warping to the outbound gate, finding a .11% (or whatever GSO shows up for you with a deep space probe), scanning it down and warping to it, ahead of the other dozen tengus hunting it down.

Advising someone to use DSP and still do radars is also silly. The premise behind using DSP is that you get to be selective in what you probe. AFAIK, radars are found on almost every strength and thus if you plan on doing them, there is no reason to be selective with regards to what you probe down.

Unless of course you only do radars if you find them on the strength you are searching for, in which case my first point comes back into play.
Sir John Halsey
#14 - 2012-07-06 21:18:42 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Bibosikus wrote:
Highsec Radar sites are your bread & butter. Always run them.


Quote:
Highsec exploration is about speed, speed, speed..


These two statements are extremely conflicting.

The time you spend scanning that radar past 25% (after identifying its a radar), warping to that site, and doing that site, is time you could have spent warping to the outbound gate, finding a .11% (or whatever GSO shows up for you with a deep space probe), scanning it down and warping to it, ahead of the other dozen tengus hunting it down.

Advising someone to use DSP and still do radars is also silly. The premise behind using DSP is that you get to be selective in what you probe. AFAIK, radars are found on almost every strength and thus if you plan on doing them, there is no reason to be selective with regards to what you probe down.

Unless of course you only do radars if you find them on the strength you are searching for, in which case my first point comes back into play.


You are 100% right.

The thing is ... sometimes when in hours and hours you don't get anything good from overseers, radars might be worth :)
A lot of DED space items are worth less or about the same price of a decryptor is is not totally a waste of time.
At least not to the beginners in HS exploration which don't fly Tengus or HACs
Bibosikus
Air
#15 - 2012-07-07 19:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Not at all conflicting.

You're postulating that "that next system might have the big drop". That's just Roulette. You might as well pass off Watches & Vigils as well, in the unreasonable expectation of a 4/10 next door. It might just as equally spawn in the same system while you are running a radar site and still scanning with a DSP.

The point is, radars are common, provide solid isk, and take 2 minutes to run. 3/10's and 4/10's are not common, and offer usually little. If you're going to make exploration a profession, then you take what you can when you can. The big loot drops will come, but dashing between systems makes absolutely no difference to the odds of finding one.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#16 - 2012-07-07 19:43:55 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
You're postulating that "that next system might have the big drop". That's just Roulette.


Welcome to exploration?

Quote:
You might as well pass off Watches & Vigils as well, in the unreasonable expectation of a 4/10 next door.


I always passed off Vigils. They take too long for faction spawn and the final part is terrible. Its not an unreasonable expectation either. Its potential and potential that I'd rather not pass up for the potential 0-20 mil of a radar.

Quote:
It might just as equally spawn in the same system while you are running a radar site and still scanning with a DSP.


This is why I would leave a DSP deactivated in a system I'm probing sigs down in and do a final scan prior to leaving.

Quote:
The point is, radars are common, provide solid isk, and take 2 minutes to run.


Solid isk? No. Radars are just as chance based. And like I said, that "2 minutes to run" can otherwise be spent finding a 4/10 or Watch.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#17 - 2012-07-07 19:44:03 UTC
Quote:
3/10's and 4/10's are not common, and offer usually little.


Whaaaaaaat? I wont argue for the 3/10 but the 4/10? That site can be done inside of five minutes and has a chance for 2 mods, each of which is worth a few hundred mil (even a chance at getting both). Also I'm speaking as if we're talking about Caldari space as thats really the most optimal place to be in high sec. As for "common." Again, wrong. The heavy competition in Caldari space means watches and 4/10s are extremely common as they're constantly respawning.

Quote:
If you're going to make exploration a profession, then you take what you can when you can.


This is called settling.

Quote:
The big loot drops will come, but dashing between systems makes absolutely no difference to the odds of finding one.


It does make a difference though. Your odds increase with more systems that you scan. You scan more systems by dashing between them when there are no potential 4/10s or Watches.

Basically, it comes down to opportunity cost. I'd rather not give up the potential for a 4/10 with a potential 400 mil drop for a site with a potential 30 mil drop.
Suqq Madiq
#18 - 2012-07-07 20:19:58 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:

- Stick to Minmatar or Caldari ( much higher respawns rate = much higher chance of finding new sites and better loot )


Well this just isn't true. There aren't "higher respawn rates" in any area of space. RNG is RNG.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#19 - 2012-07-07 20:37:30 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:


Well this just isn't true. There aren't "higher respawn rates" in any area of space. RNG is RNG.


The higher respawn rates are a result of the amount of people running the sites.

More people running sites = more sites respawning.

Competition is actually a good thing for exploration, as long as you're better than the competition.
Castina
The Church of Robotology
#20 - 2012-07-09 18:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Castina
I've been very successful scanning in Amarr high sec. It tends to require learning the way other people scan in the region. My method of scanning Kor-Azor is vastly different then Khanid, and they are both different then Tash-Murkon or Domain.

Low sec is a whole different story. I tend to find sites first system in. However I use a pilgrim and specifically target radar sites. If its quiet I'll bring in another ship to do bookmarked combat sites.

Also, the closer to high sec you are in low, the more likely someone is going to want to shoot you.
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