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High-sec ganking profitability
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Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-10-08 17:44:45 UTC
Let's say, I want to move some expensive cargo (obviously not on this char). Roughly how many EHP do I need to have to make it unprofitable to gank say at 100m ISK, 300m ISK, and 500m ISK?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-08 17:56:06 UTC
There is no amount of EHP which will make it unprofitable to gank you right now; first, because profitability is not a concern for the people who are doing most of the ganking; second, because Goonswarm Federation presently has open bounties on all mining and hauling ships within certain areas of space. You may be safe carrying 5 billion in a Badger; you may be ganked carrying 100 million in a Charon. It is literally a roll of the dice right now as to whether or not you get ganked, not a measure of perceived profitability: you are betting, at every stargate, that there are not enough goons whom have noticed your freighter, industrial, orca, mining barge, or exhumer, and whom have sufficient firepower to destroy it. Presently the payouts provided by the alliance bounties are sufficient as to incur no net cost to the pilot(s) involved in ganking any industry-related ship you might be piloting, anywhere. So if a single thing drops, it's profit.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#3 - 2011-10-08 18:51:16 UTC
Lyris Nairn wrote:
There is no amount of EHP which will make it unprofitable to gank you right now; first, because profitability is not a concern for the people who are doing most of the ganking; second, because Goonswarm Federation presently has open bounties on all mining and hauling ships within certain areas of space. You may be safe carrying 5 billion in a Badger; you may be ganked carrying 100 million in a Charon. It is literally a roll of the dice right now as to whether or not you get ganked, not a measure of perceived profitability: you are betting, at every stargate, that there are not enough goons whom have noticed your freighter, industrial, orca, mining barge, or exhumer, and whom have sufficient firepower to destroy it. Presently the payouts provided by the alliance bounties are sufficient as to incur no net cost to the pilot(s) involved in ganking any industry-related ship you might be piloting, anywhere. So if a single thing drops, it's profit.



These are, OC, exceptional conditions where your alliance sat bonus/bounty's for ships in that particular space/belts (by the way I'm on the verge of getting billionaire with my oxytops stockpile thanks to you guys).

Has the gank for revenge, for free no matter the cargo value because some might think is fun.

Regular high sec gankers for profit will always look the ratio isk spent/won and will only engage if there's profit.
Gank might be for a lot of guys some kind of business model IG.
1-Up Mushroom
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-10-08 18:57:39 UTC
Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.

If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.

So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though)
5 Days In A Week... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Hemispheres On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-08 19:07:52 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.

If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.

So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though)



Heavy tanked Rattlesnake can tank over 1.6K dps has and incredible amount of Ehp (also audit log containers?)
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-10-08 19:18:04 UTC
Goons are going after hauling ships too?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-08 19:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyris Nairn
Dalloway Jones wrote:
Goons are going after hauling ships too?

Yes. Expect the announcement to be made in CAOD soon.
e: We're also opening the bounty system to include Caldari space, and making it available to the public as well as allies so long as it's an API-verified killmail.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Kesshisan
#8 - 2011-10-08 20:00:14 UTC
It depends on what you're going to move. I often move a billion isk worth of goods in a nano'd rifter. The size of what you need to move is important as well.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-08 21:19:36 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.

If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.

So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though)


If I meant to use an Indy, this thread wouldn't exist, as there's only so much EHP one of those can have...
1-Up Mushroom
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-08 21:38:46 UTC
Mavnas wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Honestly (Not saying you are) but most people who move expensive stuff are complete idiots. I mean I can't even being to tell you how many KM's I see where Badger's and Iterions are hauling millions or billions worth of stuff. I mean you basicly hauling them in a moving target, I mean EVERY Industrial WILL get scanned at one point in their journey, why make it so easy for gankers.

If your gonna move like lets say a Core X-type LAR, it takes up what 20m3. MOVE IT IN A FIRETAIL OR A ZEALOT OR A ABADDON! How many times have you seen them scanned? None probably, because nobody suspects them to haul anything but people are complete idiots when they haul stuff, they think they can only haul stuff in Indy's.

So the matter is not on how much cargo you can carry before your ganked, it's if your an idiot enough to use a Indy to haul your stuff (Sometimes I've seen T1 Frigates scanned though)


If I meant to use an Indy, this thread wouldn't exist, as there's only so much EHP one of those can have...


Then you shouldn't have a problem as no one will scan you (Espically if your in a T2 ship)
5 Days In A Week... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Hemispheres On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!
Goose99
#11 - 2011-10-08 21:55:05 UTC
Cloaky blockade runner. Highsec is the new lowsec.Cool
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-08 21:55:21 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Then you shouldn't have a problem as no one will scan you (Espically if your in a T2 ship)


This is eve, it never hurts to be paranoid.
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-10-08 22:40:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Fina
Luckily if a corp/alliance like goonswarm ganks a wealthy industialist he can always use his financial leverage to repay the favour in kind. Goons have assets, logistics and sov holdings that are viable targets for revenge.

It's when unestablished people gank you that it is hard to get a payback.

I've personal repayed the favour of having an empty t1 industrial ganked by hiring mercs to take out a large POS. Just as the goon said in the beginning of the thread – it's not always about the profit.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-10-08 23:30:34 UTC
In some ways, I'm surprised that Goonswarm haven't blockaded Jita yet.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-10-09 04:52:18 UTC
Jenn Makanen wrote:
In some ways, I'm surprised that Goonswarm haven't blockaded Jita yet.

there is already more than enough criminals there... and im smart enough to read contracts before accepting them... the only thing annoying was the first time i went to jita i didnt know how to get rid of local but anyways back to the point of the post dont haul expensive things in an indy or any ship that would scream hey look at me (i lost a tengu that i was transporting once now i know better)

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2011-10-09 06:52:49 UTC
Cpt Fina wrote:
Luckily if a corp/alliance like goonswarm ganks a wealthy industialist he can always use his financial leverage to repay the favour in kind. Goons have assets, logistics and sov holdings that are viable targets for revenge.


lol

unless that wealthy industrialist can miracle more than 60 titans and 150 supercarriers out of his ass, i'd bet on goon space staying safe
Cpt Fina
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-10-09 11:20:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cpt Fina
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Cpt Fina wrote:
Luckily if a corp/alliance like goonswarm ganks a wealthy industialist he can always use his financial leverage to repay the favour in kind. Goons have assets, logistics and sov holdings that are viable targets for revenge.


lol

unless that wealthy industrialist can miracle more than 60 titans and 150 supercarriers out of his ass, i'd bet on goon space staying safe



I like how you pointed out where i said that the industrialist would have to evict an alliance by himself. It's nice to see that you also have the capacity to realize that money spent to terrorize an alliance doesn't have to equate destroying it entirely OR equate to spending it immediately when an alliance might at a stable state and not used to further enhance the strain that most alliances face during war.

Because if you didn't think of this you'd be as dense and incapacitated as the carebears that we are making fun of in this thread.

I also congratulate you that you've grasped the concept of exemplification when I said " a corp/alliance like goonswarm".

You, sir, strike me as a very insightful individual. Keep it up.
Brettskibols BOLSOVER
Legion of the Scarlett Phoenix
#18 - 2011-10-09 12:56:55 UTC
Right now at this point in time having a large EHP on a ship may make a ship unprofitable to gank by a single person or small group. But, and its a large but this will make no difference if someone or a corp/alliance wants to gank you. You could be in a Orca, freighter or faction fitted battleship if it's going to happen it will happen. I don't know Goons in game but I have to at some point admit that if anyone was going to go about this theyve gone about it in a very clever way. Simple answer to the question that started the thread, right now the unprofitability of the gank means 0 so EHP is reletively unimportant.
Novantco
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-10-09 14:33:25 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Cloaky blockade runner. Highsec is the new lowsec.Cool



This.


When you're shuttling about expensive stuff, if you're that concerned about being ganked then treat High sec as you would Low sec.
Mavnas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-10-09 15:11:47 UTC
Novantco wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Cloaky blockade runner. Highsec is the new lowsec.Cool

This.


When you're shuttling about expensive stuff, if you're that concerned about being ganked then treat High sec as you would Low sec.



Sadly, I don't think any of my alts has the skill for that. I suppose if the goons keep this up for more than a few weeks, then I could get it, but it looks like Oxygen isotope prices in Dodixie are already falling if that's any indicator.
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