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Selling Subscriptions and other game items. First post
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Brewlar Kuvakei

Adeptio Gloriae

Likes received: 338

#1 - 2012-07-04 13:17:35 UTC | Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei

A new law has been passed in the EU that confirms the right to sell digital property and software subscriptions.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2012/07/04/curia-digital-distribution/1

Will CCP be amending their RMT policy to conform to the new legislation since their server is inside the EU? Does the new act even cover EVE's (PLEX) as it is a 30 day licence to play the game?

Before haters cry EULA, I'll remind you that EU regulations go before CCP regulations and it will be CCP who would have to amend their EULA to conform to EU rules not the other way round.

If we are guaranteed the right to sell our digital subscriptions (PLEX) by EU law surely PLEX is about to hit the roof?

EDIT

Removed details about in game items as new act does not cover digital items just digital subscriptions and licences.

Abdiel Kavash

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 2,736

#2 - 2012-07-04 13:20:08 UTC | Edited by: Abdiel Kavash

Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

Does the new act even cover in game items? Or will it only consider subscriptions?

If you bothered to actually read the act, it specifically covers software licences. Your stuff is not a software licence. Your character is not a software licence. Your account is not a software licence. CCP is not selling licences to run EVE, as CCP is the only company (legally) running EVE - the EVE server.

[edit] You don't need a licence to run the client either. The client is a free download.

Caldari Provisions Caldari State 118
Azrin Stella Oerndotte Caldari Provisions Caldari State Likes received: 118	#3 - 2012-07-04 13:21:32 UTC It is their game, if they decide not to allow it nor implement it, who can force them?

State War Academy Caldari State 462
Cebraio State War Academy Caldari State Likes received: 462	#4 - 2012-07-04 13:25:07 UTC Also, this thread.

Imperial Collective 195
Ya Huei Imperial Collective Likes received: 195	#5 - 2012-07-04 13:26:01 UTC 2 Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote: It is their game, if they decide not to allow it nor implement it, who can force them? It's my dope, who can force me not to sell it? Think before u post. Also, this ruling is about licensed software, not subscription based games.

Nirnias Stirrum

UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies

Likes received: 290

#6 - 2012-07-04 13:26:31 UTC | Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum

And even if it was license based, CCP reserve the right to terminate said license whenever they want, you accepted those terms when you accepted the TOS or EULA. Doesnt matter what laws are passed, if you sign a contract or click accept you are bound by that contract.. Kids these days never reading TOS or EULA's and just pressing accept! pff


Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae Likes received: 338	#7 - 2012-07-04 13:26:43 UTC How is PLEX not a software licence? It is a monthly subscription that licences me to play the game. PLEX by very definition is a time restricted software licence, it's even called a 30 day licence. I think you are right about in game items and chars they are most likely not covered by the new regulations but it sure sounds like 30 day licences are.


Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae Likes received: 338	#8 - 2012-07-04 13:27:51 UTC \| Edited by: Brewlar Kuvakei I want dev clarification if CCP intends to change their policy on the sale of licence subscriptions to conform with the new EU regulations.

Nirnias Stirrum

UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies

Likes received: 290

#9 - 2012-07-04 13:29:19 UTC | Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum

Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

Nirnias Stirrum wrote:

And even if it was license based, CCP reserve the right to terminate said license whenever they want. Kids these days never reading TOS or EULA's and just pressing accept! pff

pffft because if I write ''you forfeit all your real world assets'' in a terms and conditions that makes all your stuff mine? Get a grip CCP conforms to EU regulations not the other way round.

CCP owns all materials that you posses. yes they can take them whenever they feel like it. You dont own anything. You are paying for a service to play their product. And people are certainly not allowed to profit from selling someone elses goods.

Sunshine and Lollipops 27,526
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#10 - 2012-07-04 13:29:50 UTC 3 Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: How is PLEX not a software licence? Because it doesn't have anything to do with software. It's a service contract renewal. It's a software license in the same sense as your newspaper subscription is a software license — i.e. not at all.


Brewlar Kuvakei Adeptio Gloriae Likes received: 338	#11 - 2012-07-04 13:32:23 UTC OK, I'm buying as many EVE 30 day licences as I can afford in ISK on my accounts, I'm off to find out for 100% the rules covering the sale of software licences and to make sure that CCP's 30 day Licence is covered. Worse case I'll just turn them back into ISK.


Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#12 - 2012-07-04 13:34:57 UTC Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: OK, I'm buying as many EVE 30 day licences Unfortunately, no such product exists. As for your quest, the ruling is already very clear about how it does not cover this kind of service.

Brewlar Kuvakei

Adeptio Gloriae

Likes received: 338

#13 - 2012-07-04 13:39:39 UTC

Abdiel Kavash wrote:

Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

Does the new act even cover in game items? Or will it only consider subscriptions?

CCP does sell licences to play the game and yes the client is free to download but you need a licence to play after 14 days, lots of software does this.

Azrin Stella Oerndotte

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 118

#14 - 2012-07-04 13:40:53 UTC

Ya Huei wrote:

Azrin Stella Oerndotte wrote:

It is their game, if they decide not to allow it nor implement it, who can force them?

It's my dope, who can force me not to sell it?

Think before u post.

Also, this ruling is about licensed software, not subscription based games.

Think before u reply, OP is obviously speaking of selling plexes, which is against the EULA. Even if it was to cover services such as game time CCP is free to ban you for selling it, even normal subscriptions not based on plexes.

Brewlar Kuvakei

Adeptio Gloriae

Likes received: 338

#15 - 2012-07-04 13:42:31 UTC

Tippia wrote:

Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

OK, I'm buying as many EVE 30 day licences

Unfortunately, no such product exists.

As for your quest, the ruling is already very clear about how it does not cover this kind of service.

I've just redeemed/removed PLEX from the EVE client and it's now in my CCP account and it is called ''30 day EVE online subscription.''.

I have ten, ''30 day eve online subs'' and the EU rules clearly state that I can sell them. Will CCP be amending it's policy to allow the sale of these licences to conform to EU regulation? Need dev clarification.

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#16 - 2012-07-04 13:44:42 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:

CCP does sell licences to play the game and yes the client is free to download but you need a licence to play after 14 days, lots of software does this.

…and that license is available for free or (depending on how you buy the game) $5 or so. It is separate entity from the software license. Since the license can be had for free, and since on its own, it doesn't let you have much fun in the game, there's pretty much zero reason to resell it.

In fact, what this ruling does is make it possible for you to have an account without having the legal right to use it.

Quote:

I've just redeemed/removed PLEX from the EVE client and it's now in my CCP account and it is called ''30 day EVE online subscription.''.

Yes? Subscriptions. Not software licenses. Again, the ruling does not cover these kinds of service contracts, and especially not the recurring-payment kind. The rules do not clearly state that you can sell them. In fact, the way legalese works, they clearly implicitly say that you can't.


Abdiel Kavash Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State Likes received: 2,736	#17 - 2012-07-04 13:51:05 UTC While "licence" and "subscription" might have similar meaning in common speech, in legalesse they are completely different terms. A PLEX, even though it happens to have "licence" in its name, merely extends your subscription.

Cebraio

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 462

#18 - 2012-07-04 13:52:14 UTC

Please do us all a favor and read the thread that I linked. We got this whole discussion already covered.

Let me show you two of your mistakes right away:
1. What you acquired are subscription (extensions), not software licenses. See your own words.

2. The ruling is directed towards unlimited (time) licenses of a software. EVE doesn't have that. You don't own that.

From the article you linked:
"a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy."

Now please, get over yourself and try to make some sense in what you claim.

Ya Huei

Imperial Collective

Likes received: 195

#19 - 2012-07-04 13:54:03 UTC

Nirnias Stirrum wrote:

Like I said, the ruling was about owned licenses, not subscriptions so I don't see how it would apply to PLEX.

Your argument about EULA's and TOS means exactly nothing because those still have to abide by local legislation. U can't put stuff in there that breaks the law.


Abdiel Kavash Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State Likes received: 2,736	#20 - 2012-07-04 13:54:53 UTC I have a question of my own, would this apply to games with a one-time payment method? (Such as, Guild Wars)

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