Wormholes

I want you to imagine for a moment, you are shooting a Drednought in your battle badger. He has no modules fitted and you have enough ammo to keep going til he dies. Suddenly the ship explodes in front of you. You check your combat log but nothing appears. There is no record of you catching this guy with his pants down, utterly embarrased him and would have dealt over a million dmg using just a badger.

Instead the pilot decided to blow his ship up. He knew what the outcome was and took steps to deny you the ship and it's contents. A perfectly legitimate tactic (hey I hear you fannies moaning it's a sandbox all the time). The last person to decisively determine the fate of the ship is it's pilot. just shooting at him doesn't make it your kill does it? It doesn't give you the right to any prestige for damaging a guys ship that exploded of it's own accord surely?

If you happen to be taking a wh and surround their POS, they decide to deny you everything they have these are not your kills. You have not caused a single one of them. Should you choose to argue causation; "Yeah but I send my pixels at him which made him asplode his pixels." Well maybe I should record my debit card transaction to CCP in my killmails, you know, if I wasn't paying the sub I wouldn't ever explode would I?

You have driven them out. They have lost their asset(s). If you have not blown them up why do you think you deserve a killmail?

Don't ever claim the majority in a forum, because more than likely. You are not. Just those who don't care about your pathetic problem cba to post in your pathetic thread.

I think its pretty obvious she created this new thread on purpose.

That being said, I don't have an issue personally with SD mechanics in any non combat situations. inside a POS, or outside.

But while engaged in combat I think it is fair that the SD should show up on a killmail. Heck you would likely be both the top damage dealer on your own kill!

You don't die when you SD though.

And a killmail is also for the ship, not the Pilot. Hence the fact that you get one even if the ship is unpiloted. So on that logic a killmail for a self destructed ship will fit that model in a way as well.

Ok, I'll keep playing.




IMO seems fair.



First off, you can't actuall self destruct while docked. You can destroy your ship but it's technically different. However if you could IMO no it would not generate a killmail.

Why?

Because by docking you have satisfied 2 game mechanics already in place. First, you would have had to wait out your aggression timer to dock. And more importantly, you would have had a session change by docking.

The session change is important, as it is already a mechanic that deals with this. For example, I engage someone on a gate. They almost kill me but I jump through the gate. On the other side someone else finishes me off. In this instance the first person does not get on the killmail because of the session change.

So not having a killmail would still be consistent with current game mechanics.



The causation crap isn't really relevant in terms of EVE game mechanics. The key here is combat, aggression mechanics and session changes.

In your above example, the key difference to the others is that while you can have your aggression timer expire by not firing, you cannot have a session change since you are tackled.

SD is not your only option. In fact you have 4.

1. Stay and fight.
2. Eject from your ship and warp your pod away
3. Logoff
4. SD

Staying and fighting generates a killmail.
Ejecting would still generate a killmail, as does killing an unpiloted ship that someone ejected from but did not have a session change.
Given that CCP changed logoff mechanics, they seemed to consider this an exploit of game mechanics. So your ship goes boom. Killmail generated

SD. To be consistent, in this scenario it seems to be more consistent to have a killmail than not, if you look at it via EVE game mechanics. You are tackled and cannot get a session change that would otherwise wipe the combat from you. Therefore the SD would generate a killmail. Seems like a fair comprimise and stays constent with current EVE mechanics.

Looking at the session change situation there. Another hypothetical situation, Just before jumping a gate a nightmare is flayed to within 1hp of it's structure. getting away with 1hp remaining. Upon reappearing in the next solar system a passing ibis seizes upon the opportunity and one shots the nightmare. All 149,999 hp dealt in the previous system is simply forgotten about. This doesn't seem in any way correctly recorded at all. I hope you agree with me on that because to continue from it: Just because it's how the game is now doesn't mean it's right. After all you're arguing to change killmail mechanics to include SDs.

So returning to that previous question. So what if you've just docked, the reason you trashed your ship is because you know you won't get away in it. True if docked in NPC null or being shot at and tackled. In both situations where there is a potential for you to die (you never know someone might come to your aid) and you decide to speed it up it doesn't make sense to me for that to be recorded as a kill for someone else. Just as jumping a stargate shouldn't mean if you've done all the work on a ship and it jumps a gate you are not given credit for the heinous amounts of damage you caused.

There's nothing stopping you killing people and just not recording it whatsoever. After all, it still happened didn't it? You're playing a game and whining about cowardice. Denying you anything ever would be my top priority if you were shooting me. Poking you in the eye for doing the same to me doesn't seem like cowardice at all, just a legitimate strategy for reducing your gains from my loss.

so far I only see:
1. carebears like to fly cap ship but don't want people to blow it up or dont want lossmail as a proof of their carebearing.

2. pvpers who fail miserably, afraid to admit their failure and try to sd his holysh*tfit cap

if you ever try to kill a cap sding and fail to do it, you'll see how stupid that mechanic is.

people support sd are carebears only use their ship to fight red cross and dont want lossmail when someone catch his precious

tl;dr version: tc has had to SD all his capitals because he is terrible and can't defend his wh. A bloo bloo bloo.

Tears about being denied something.

Nope, no tears, getting a mail doesn't matter. Like Bane said, SD twists reality. The aggressors always know what happened and why, but the loser gets away with their terribleness without anyone else knowing.

Apparently, the aggressor wants something (in this case, he wants the victim's loss not going unnoticed) and this 'victim' is denying it the aggressor. Nothing new here, just classic grieving.
The aggressors are now complaining about not getting what they want... it just completes the circle.