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New dev blog: The FW Exploit 2012 (or: How I learned about FOREX)

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Aemonchichi
Limited Access
#361 - 2012-07-03 19:03:20 UTC
ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#362 - 2012-07-03 23:38:54 UTC
I think that what this really means is that if you are going to exploit a game system, you have to make it epic and then brag about it.

While i am not a fan of the goons in general, this is one of the more entertaining things ive seen on these forums in a while.
For most of the past two months Ive been posting about various other issues within the game, and the concentrated effort on CCP's part to do nothing right.

Not only did I post about this potential gaming of the system on 5/9 (before it was released on tq) but i completely failed to fully envision the scope to which it should have been used.

Freighters? wow. Had i the alts and the time i would have been popping frigates, or even cruisers. but i didnt realize the mobilization that you (the goons) would apply to this.

But,

Sirs, I applaud you.

I dont like goons, and i probably never will, but if you are gonna do it, do it in style.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2012-07-04 01:48:18 UTC
Aemonchichi wrote:
ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?


Because it technically wasn't an exploit. If the Faction Five had limited themselves to 5 billion instead of 5 trillion ISK, they wouldn't have done anything and would have just adjusted the game mechanics quietly.

Or, more likely, CCP would have ignored the poorly designed mechanics and it would have been 5 Quadrillion ISK spread out across 12 months and 1000 players instead of 5 trillion across 5.

And, there's that nasty thing about how the "exploiters" warned CCP about this being a bad idea and then gave them full disclosure about what they had done afterwards, meaning that technically speaking, they were being the good guys here.

Which is why "the exploiters" were given PLEXes for their troubles.

Personally, I think CCP should have just converted the 5 trillion to PLEX and auto-applied it to the players' accounts rather than let them have the PLEX directly. Brilliant players should be rewarded, after all.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#364 - 2012-07-04 02:50:34 UTC
More correctly...

Quote:
Because the players made efforts to inform us about the issue their accounts will remain in good standing.


This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Sperno Thanato
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#365 - 2012-07-04 06:06:30 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Xython wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Exploiting the snot out of something for TWO weeks and only officially reporting it when the noose tightens as bughunters/devs close in on the anomaly should at the very least be prolonged temporary bans as well as confiscation of all ill-gotten goods and an investigation into the effects of those five holier-than-though exploiters (LOL!) LP dumps into the FW sovereignty mechanic.


You mad Bro?? You sound like you could be mad.

Did BoB used to say the same thing to Goonswarm, when you guys accused CCP of favoritism towards BoB?


Only all the time LolLolLol

Goons tbh are a little bit like the abused who from an entire society of role models choose to aspire to and immitate their abuser...

I think that's considered normal among shrinks but I can't remember liek the scientific terms and whatnot...
Anoexia
Fr33 Banking and Trade
#366 - 2012-07-04 09:02:03 UTC
What the goons did was not an exploit in the truest sense of the word and while the outcome of this "event " could have been much worse it wasn't. Those people who think things can't be traced forward into other accounts are dead wrong or are Blizzard QC employees. All you have to do is go back to a set point in time look at the character snapshot and then follow the activity log forward or if you want quick and dirty you can just say hey this was your ISK balance, LP totals, and inventory at the point that the "event" began and restore the inventory to the snapshot value and the LP & ISK totals to 90% or so of their value. That would be an easy but maybe not the most fair way to punish the offenders Goons or other. Hey but if you want to have real fun report the RMT folks to the taxing authorities in their home countries, the bulk of them are not paying taxes on their profits. Let the governments of the world lend a hand :) Taxmen like small time cheats they can't afford big time lawyers.Twisted
Aemonchichi
Limited Access
#367 - 2012-07-04 16:03:28 UTC
Aemonchichi wrote:
ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?


my question is still standing , CCP said in the dev blog it was a exploit and phuuleeeeze refrain from answering questions not asked in your direction goons and affiliates 8)

it is clear that under this circumstances your opinions are biased

the point was well judged that it was an exploit, ccp decides so and takes actions that make sense like revoking all ill gotten gains, but no punishment ? for a exploit ? i wanna hear from ccp sreegs why this absolutley inconclusive action was taken ( no to mention a snitch plex award, lol , as if someone could snitch himself)

all this looks a bit awkwardly constructed and not logically acted from step to step , the motivations from ccp are in question here
Belonger
State Writ
#368 - 2012-07-04 20:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Belonger
if that graph is CORRECT there were more then 1 B LP per day produced.
Thoose 5 ppl claim they earn only 5 Trilions on it so where is the rest of the lp/iskies?

From the graph it looks like 5 trilions per day not in 2 weeks.

SO i have a question did u catched other ppl usign that exploit? or did the CCP decide they are on marigin bcs they got less then soem amount of isks from it?
Pipa Porto
#369 - 2012-07-04 22:56:21 UTC
Aemonchichi wrote:
Aemonchichi wrote:
ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?


my question is still standing , CCP said in the dev blog it was a exploit and phuuleeeeze refrain from answering questions not asked in your direction goons and affiliates 8)

it is clear that under this circumstances your opinions are biased

the point was well judged that it was an exploit, ccp decides so and takes actions that make sense like revoking all ill gotten gains, but no punishment ? for a exploit ? i wanna hear from ccp sreegs why this absolutley inconclusive action was taken ( no to mention a snitch plex award, lol , as if someone could snitch himself)

all this looks a bit awkwardly constructed and not logically acted from step to step , the motivations from ccp are in question here


Read the thread and dev blog and you'll find that your question has already been answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#370 - 2012-07-05 02:49:19 UTC
Belonger wrote:
if that graph is CORRECT there were more then 1 B LP per day produced.
Thoose 5 ppl claim they earn only 5 Trilions on it so where is the rest of the lp/iskies?

From the graph it looks like 5 trilions per day not in 2 weeks.

SO i have a question did u catched other ppl usign that exploit? or did the CCP decide they are on marigin bcs they got less then soem amount of isks from it?


Uh...you realize that the graph is unlabeled, so you have no idea what the amounts on it are, right? And that we did this over several days, not just on one day, right? And that the 5 trillion was isk, not LP, right?

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Pipa Porto
#371 - 2012-07-05 04:10:59 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Belonger wrote:
if that graph is CORRECT there were more then 1 B LP per day produced.
Thoose 5 ppl claim they earn only 5 Trilions on it so where is the rest of the lp/iskies?

From the graph it looks like 5 trilions per day not in 2 weeks.

SO i have a question did u catched other ppl usign that exploit? or did the CCP decide they are on marigin bcs they got less then soem amount of isks from it?


Uh...you realize that the graph is unlabeled, so you have no idea what the amounts on it are, right? And that we did this over several days, not just on one day, right? And that the 5 trillion was isk, not LP, right?


Are you trying to teach a random GoonHater™ literacy? Or, crazier yet, reading comprehension?

Actually, I think you could force people to actually read if all Goonswarm personnel hit their Corp/Alliance tags. People would have to click something and read something before they attacked it for being posted by a Goon.*

*Though, I do seem to remember a thread where an OP claimed Goon conspiracy before any Goon had posted, so I guess I'm wrong... Sad

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#372 - 2012-07-05 05:36:44 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Aemonchichi wrote:
Aemonchichi wrote:
ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?


my question is still standing , CCP said in the dev blog it was a exploit and phuuleeeeze refrain from answering questions not asked in your direction goons and affiliates 8)

it is clear that under this circumstances your opinions are biased

the point was well judged that it was an exploit, ccp decides so and takes actions that make sense like revoking all ill gotten gains, but no punishment ? for a exploit ? i wanna hear from ccp sreegs why this absolutley inconclusive action was taken ( no to mention a snitch plex award, lol , as if someone could snitch himself)

all this looks a bit awkwardly constructed and not logically acted from step to step , the motivations from ccp are in question here


Read the thread and dev blog and you'll find that your question has already been answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer.


Don't bother - the hatred induced blindness is too strong in this one.
Pipa Porto
#373 - 2012-07-05 07:59:40 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Aemonchichi wrote:
Aemonchichi wrote:
ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?


my question is still standing , CCP said in the dev blog it was a exploit and phuuleeeeze refrain from answering questions not asked in your direction goons and affiliates 8)

it is clear that under this circumstances your opinions are biased

the point was well judged that it was an exploit, ccp decides so and takes actions that make sense like revoking all ill gotten gains, but no punishment ? for a exploit ? i wanna hear from ccp sreegs why this absolutley inconclusive action was taken ( no to mention a snitch plex award, lol , as if someone could snitch himself)

all this looks a bit awkwardly constructed and not logically acted from step to step , the motivations from ccp are in question here


Read the thread and dev blog and you'll find that your question has already been answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer.


Don't bother - the hatred induced blindness is too strong in this one.



I find that the best way to infuriate someone blind with impotent rage is to talk to them calmly and be right when they're not.

And poking at a raging steer is just good clean fun.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Belonger
State Writ
#374 - 2012-07-05 13:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Belonger
Belonger wrote:
if that graph is CORRECT there were more then 1 B LP per day produced.
Thoose 5 ppl claim they earn only 5 Trilions on it so where is the rest of the lp/iskies?

From the graph it looks like 5 trilions per day not in 2 weeks.

SO i have a question did u catched other ppl usign that exploit? or did the CCP decide they are on marigin bcs they got less then soem amount of isks from it?


To unwise ppl who cant read - 5 trilions in isks were like 1b lp with T5 and that time market prices on simple implants. There were also better way to sell lp


I supposed that graph is linear -> considering how much lp made in one corp i have an alt in there were created more lp even if i will count that LP made that day was done only by one corporation ( with my alt inside).

And we have not 12 ppl in militia but like 500 minimum ( active).

Still i want to get CCP answer about it.
Andrea Griffin
#375 - 2012-07-05 15:17:16 UTC
CCP Sreegs, Best Sreegs.

CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer.
Dalketh
DRRUSSEL
#376 - 2012-07-05 18:59:15 UTC
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:



So goons take advantage of an exploit, profit from it, then their accounts are left in good standing and even plex awarded, because they at some point sent that information to ccp.

I may be wrong, but didn't you ban the guy (non-goon) who did the same thing when he exposed an exploit with the first opening of these new forums - where no one paid attention to his warnings until he exploited it as proof? I can't remember if it was a lifetime ban, but I know he was banned, and without making a cent.

How is this case so very different?


Well said. I remember this also. I looked it up and according to the MAssively site:

"At least one player who reported the exploit was banned for subsequently abusing the exploit in an effort to force CCP to take action."

How is this any different Sreegs? Seems the same to me except he wasn't a goon, and he was punished not rewarded.
Pipa Porto
#377 - 2012-07-05 21:42:59 UTC
Dalketh wrote:
Helena Russell Makanen wrote:



So goons take advantage of an exploit, profit from it, then their accounts are left in good standing and even plex awarded, because they at some point sent that information to ccp.

I may be wrong, but didn't you ban the guy (non-goon) who did the same thing when he exposed an exploit with the first opening of these new forums - where no one paid attention to his warnings until he exploited it as proof? I can't remember if it was a lifetime ban, but I know he was banned, and without making a cent.

How is this case so very different?


Well said. I remember this also. I looked it up and according to the MAssively site:

"At least one player who reported the exploit was banned for subsequently abusing the exploit in an effort to force CCP to take action."

How is this any different Sreegs? Seems the same to me except he wasn't a goon, and he was punished not rewarded.


Because Massively is the New York Times of gaming related investigative reporting. Roll

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Aemonchichi
Limited Access
#378 - 2012-07-06 10:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aemonchichi
Pipa Porto wrote:
Read the thread and dev blog and you'll find that your question has already been answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer.


dear troll i have read all the devblog and all ccp posts in this thread and no answer was give to my question at all

my question still stands: why were the exploiters not punished?

the only 2 arguments sreegs/ccp wise on this is :

1. because they snitched themselves at a point were we already saw that there was an exploit happening and we were investigating (thats not the wording but the meaning) - does this sound strange to anyone but me ?

2. because we felt this is best for the game - best ? wtf is best for the game here ? to show players can exploit and if the see posts from ccp that they are aware of something going on they go make a post and sack a bunch o plexes ? no sreegs this is in no way good for the game


both of these are not sufficient answers at all, if these are all ccp sreegs wants to give - hell yeah lets exploit the **** out of this game lol ? maybe eve has really reached a point where ccp doesnt give a **** about it anymore 8(
Pipa Porto
#379 - 2012-07-06 10:36:15 UTC
Aemonchichi wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Read the thread and dev blog and you'll find that your question has already been answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer.


dear troll i have read all the devblog and all ccp posts in this thread and no answer was give to my question at all

my question still stands: why were the exploiters not punished?

the only 2 arguments sreegs/ccp wise on this is :

1. because they snitched themselves at a point were we already saw that there was an exploit happening and we were investigating (thats not the wording but the meaning) - does this sound strange to anyone but me ?

2. because we felt this is best for the game - best ? wtf is best for the game here ? to show players can exploit and if the see posts from ccp that they are aware of something going on they go make a post and sack a bunch o plexes ? no sreegs this is in no way good for the game


both of these are not sufficient answers at all, if these are all ccp sreegs wants to give - hell yeah lets exploit the **** out of this game lol ? maybe eve has really reached a point where ccp doesnt give a **** about it anymore 8(


Since you still haven't been able to read the devblog,

Quote:
Because the players made efforts to inform us about the issue their accounts will remain in good standing.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72972

There you go.

Sorry you don't like the answer.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Aemonchichi
Limited Access
#380 - 2012-07-06 13:07:06 UTC
it still is no answer, the players made their post after ccp said in the news that something fishy is going on and they investigate

ccp clearly states that is was an exploit, and sreegs states that they already knew there was someone manipulating LPs way out of scale

so saying they remain in good standing should read they remain in awesome standing cause they get a bunch of plexes on top of no punishment

and sreegs, as a former goon member, communicating all this to the community, is not a wise choice made by ccp even if u grant him that he above acting biased

no wonder this smells fishy and i still would like an explanation above the one litte sentence from the dev blog

sandbox does not mean: no rules, hack, bot and exploit as u like and for a game i invest a lot of time and effort into i would like to see CCP more dedicated to the enforcement of their own rules