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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Just started playing this game and I can't believe the quest system is broken.

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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#41 - 2012-06-29 18:40:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
The simple fact, OP, is that EVE's mission system is ******* terrible. It is by far the most awful mechanic in the game for all the reasons you mentioned and more. Fortunately, missions are an extremely tiny part of the game. This is not like WoW where the entire game is mission/quest-driven. I'd encourage you to give more of it a try before dismissing it.
Anthonii
eXpanse eXploration
#42 - 2012-06-29 18:43:46 UTC
If you are just killing time for "2 weeks" anyway what does it matter if you have to do it twice P
SAVANT Mahr
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-06-29 18:48:39 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Darius Arsten wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
1. It's called missions not quests.

2. It's not broken. In EVE each player gets his own missions. So if you both want to do the Epic Arc, you have to do them twice. Nothing stops you from doing it together. Lots of mission runners team up. One accepts the mission, both run them and they share the reward. But it's not so that if you both accepted a mission you can complete one and with that the other is completed. This is cause everybody that accepts its mission get their own mission pocket.

EVE =/= WoW. Stop comparing EVE to WoW (or tis clones), EVE works different.


I'm not insulting you're baby, why you getting mad. It is broken, admit it. Doing the same quest twice doesn't make sense.

You're going to be very disappointed about how many times you'll be rescuing the damsel.


That Ho wont stay the hell out of the pimp-shack thats for sure
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#44 - 2012-06-29 18:55:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
You share the credit because you can only kill someone once.


Man, speaking of not knowing the basic game lore... I'm pretty sure it points out that a lot of people are effectively immortal right on the box.

.


Sigh, re-read my words. In context, I was saying "IN OTHER GAMES." You can only kill someone once.

This is the Full quote he was referring to
Quote:
These are not Quests. Quests you do, you get a Quest log that gives you a "Complete" then you do the next quest. Then you compare your quest log size with others to get a shallow sense of empowerment. In a quest system. If you do a quest, you are doing some part of the main storyline, you complete it, and it changes the overall story around you. You go and kill someone in a quest. Well story wise, you can only kill someone once, so when you group up, with others you all get credit.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Django Returns
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-07-01 00:25:18 UTC
Darius Arsten wrote:
Trying to do the Sisters of Eve story arc with a friend and you basically have to do the quest twice even though you are "partied" up. What gives? Do they not want people playing together in an MMO?


You are absolutly right but EVE is full of ignorant players who drink the coolaid. They are fanbois and will dismiss any kind of improvement or adeption of the system to new situations or new players. Its like talking to a donkey who is used to carry the same shiet always the same way.
rofflesausage
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-07-01 00:48:18 UTC
Darius Arsten wrote:

2. That isn't comparing anything either. If you are in a fleet and both have the same "mission" with the same "objectives" they should complete when you do them together. That would make sense even if you had never played any other game in your life.


I see where you're coming from, but you're thinking about missions in the wrong way.

Think of it this way:

Little Jimmy asks his mum for some pocket money. Being a smart mum she realises it's a great idea to make him work for it. She offers to give little Jimmy 5 who English pounds, with the queens head on if he cleans her car.

Little Jimmy is thrilled by this, and not realising he's being used as slave labour goes off to clean his mums car. Once finished, he returns to his mum, slightly wetter than before and asks for his fiver.

Sadly this is only half of the cash our friend, little Jimmy needs for his new game that he wants to buy so he decides to ask his dad too.

His dad sees what a wonderful job he has made of his mums car and offers the same conditions to him - 5 pounds for the cleaning of his car.

Again, little Jimmy goes off and cleans his dads car to the same high standard you'd expect and returns 30 minutes later for his payment. Thrilled with his work, his dad gives him the other 5 pound needed for our hero to buy his game.

He's essentially done the same thing each time but got paid for it twice. Missions are rather like this.

Sadly for him, on the way to buy his new game from the shops, little Jimmy was mugged and his 10 whole English pounds stolen.

He learnt the world isn't fair that day.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#47 - 2012-07-01 00:51:01 UTC
In other MMOs, you can't complete a quest until you've got it yourself. You could help your friend with a quest line, but if that friend is one or two steps ahead of you, you will not get any benefit for the quests they are completing.

In that popular fantasy MMO you will not even gain access to certain quest givers until you have completed previous quests for that faction, and in the frozen North you can't even see the NPCs that your friend is attacking because your friend will be in a different "phase" of the adventure. Then there's the issue of not having access to taxis: you can't help your friend because you simply can't get to where they are.

I suggest that EVE's mission system is simply different, not broken.

In EVE, you can help your friend with any mission they have at any time. There are occasions where you will have to get through locked gates, but in those situations it's usually enough to activate the gate at the same time. There are no places in EVE where you will not get a reward for helping run a mission simply because you didn't do the precursor quest chain. Sure, if you didn't receive the storyline mission you won't get the faction standings bonus, but you'll still get the bounties and the ISK/corp standing rewards when the mission is completed.

The EVE mission system works better for new players, except those who are used to the selfish questing systems of other MMOs and expect EVE to work the same way. I can take a new player into level 4 missions with no issues other than the new player's ability to survive. They'll get bounties, they'll get mission rewards, and eventually they'll get access to that agent in order to be able to accept missions.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-07-01 03:42:25 UTC
Darius Arsten wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
1. It's called missions not quests.

2. It's not broken. In EVE each player gets his own missions. So if you both want to do the Epic Arc, you have to do them twice. Nothing stops you from doing it together. Lots of mission runners team up. One accepts the mission, both run them and they share the reward. But it's not so that if you both accepted a mission you can complete one and with that the other is completed. This is cause everybody that accepts its mission get their own mission pocket.

EVE =/= WoW. Stop comparing EVE to WoW (or tis clones), EVE works different.


I'm not insulting you're baby, why you getting mad. It is broken, admit it. Doing the same quest twice doesn't make sense.


After this post, you have zero credibility on these forums.

Considering the missions handed out are based on a single character, it does actually make sense that you may have to do it twice if you're in a fleet with another person who is also accepting missions.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-07-01 03:44:33 UTC
rofflesausage wrote:
Darius Arsten wrote:

2. That isn't comparing anything either. If you are in a fleet and both have the same "mission" with the same "objectives" they should complete when you do them together. That would make sense even if you had never played any other game in your life.


I see where you're coming from, but you're thinking about missions in the wrong way.

Think of it this way:

Little Jimmy asks his mum for some pocket money. Being a smart mum she realises it's a great idea to make him work for it. She offers to give little Jimmy 5 who English pounds, with the queens head on if he cleans her car.

Little Jimmy is thrilled by this, and not realising he's being used as slave labour goes off to clean his mums car. Once finished, he returns to his mum, slightly wetter than before and asks for his fiver.

Sadly this is only half of the cash our friend, little Jimmy needs for his new game that he wants to buy so he decides to ask his dad too.

His dad sees what a wonderful job he has made of his mums car and offers the same conditions to him - 5 pounds for the cleaning of his car.

Again, little Jimmy goes off and cleans his dads car to the same high standard you'd expect and returns 30 minutes later for his payment. Thrilled with his work, his dad gives him the other 5 pound needed for our hero to buy his game.

He's essentially done the same thing each time but got paid for it twice. Missions are rather like this.

Sadly for him, on the way to buy his new game from the shops, little Jimmy was mugged and his 10 whole English pounds stolen.

He learnt the world isn't fair that day.


I hate stories like this.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Drakarin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-07-02 18:53:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Drakarin
The PvE side of EvE is severely lacking, unfortunately.

It seems to be the way of the world. Either a game does PvE really well and fails on the pvp, or vice versa. I know of no game that does both very well. Shame, real shame.

Iria Ahrens wrote:
These are not Quests. Quests you do, you get a Quest log that gives you a "Complete" then you do the next quest. Then you compare your quest log size with others to get a shallow sense of empowerment. In a quest system. If you do a quest, you are doing some part of the main storyline, you complete it, and it changes the overall story around you. You go and kill someone in a quest. Well story wise, you can only kill someone once, so when you group up, with others you all get credit.

Eve is different. Just about everyone you kill is immortal. You go and kill someone, they revive in a clone, and go back to doing whatever they did before. There is no need for you to share credit, because the target will just revive and need to be killed again. Sharing credit goes against the lore of EVE.

And don't use the "rose is rose" quote. You're misusing it.

Just because something is different than you are used to doesn't make it broken. Yes we have played those other games, We are now playing EVE not those other games. That should tell you that we prefer the eve way.

If I wanted EVE to be more like another game, I'd go play that other game.


NPC pirates are not immortal.

J'Poll wrote:
Darius Arsten wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
1. It's called missions not quests.

2. It's not broken. In EVE each player gets his own missions. So if you both want to do the Epic Arc, you have to do them twice. Nothing stops you from doing it together. Lots of mission runners team up. One accepts the mission, both run them and they share the reward. But it's not so that if you both accepted a mission you can complete one and with that the other is completed. This is cause everybody that accepts its mission get their own mission pocket.

EVE =/= WoW. Stop comparing EVE to WoW (or tis clones), EVE works different.


I'm not insulting you're baby, why you getting mad. It is broken, admit it. Doing the same quest twice doesn't make sense.

I'm not mad. You just think that EvE standing mechanics work the same as you precious other MMO. It doesn't. EVE picks out a mission and creates a mission pocket for you. 2 persons = 2 pockets, want to run missions together, one accepts a mission then you clear it and when completing you share rewards. What is brlken about it. You both want to complete SoE epic, then you both have to run the missions for each account. Making pockets universal will be great, gankers will find them and shoot/loot anybody that tries to run them.

Again (and it's just a tip): Forget about WoW, 99.9% of the times EvE works differently. So best to approach it with a clear view so you see why they did it this way.


You are stating how it is, but fail to accept that it could be improved, which is why he's annoyed.

It could be improved by simply allowing a mission to be accepted as a fleet, and having that mission scale to the size of the fleet in difficulty. Or, it could be left at the same solo level state, but then the rewards would be inferior for a group.

Why not? EvE is all about cooperating as a group. Not everyone just wants to pvp. I hate when people get tunnel vision and think the game should only accommodate their playstyle.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-07-02 19:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Drakarin wrote:


You are stating how it is, but fail to accept that it could be improved, which is why he's annoyed.

It could be improved by simply allowing a mission to be accepted as a fleet, and having that mission scale to the size of the fleet in difficulty. Or, it could be left at the same solo level state, but then the rewards would be inferior for a group.

Why not? EvE is all about cooperating as a group. Not everyone just wants to pvp. I hate when people get tunnel vision and think the game should only accommodate their playstyle.


To the bold & underlined stuff:

INCURSIONS,

Want to solo PvE:

Run level 1 - 4 missions,
Do high-sec exploration
Do low level WH
Do low level null-sec ratting

Want to fleet PvE:

Do level 5 missions,
Do high level null-sec complexes
Do high class WH
Do Incursions.

There is plenty of both. Some people are just to lazy to search for stuff and expect that everything from the start is what they want from it.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Drakarin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-07-02 19:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Drakarin
There is no reason why group pve has to be restricted to high end content. It could easily be adapted for new players as well.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-07-02 20:49:48 UTC
Drakarin wrote:
There is no reason why group pve has to be restricted to high end content. It could easily be adapted for new players as well.


I've seen 1 month old characters jump into null-sec, Incursion fleets can be joined with a properly fitted BC (about 2 - 3 months of skilling). It's high-end if you make it high-end. Nobody forces you to wait 2 years before going there.

And at the moment even missions can be done with a fleet. Low end missions usually are done by new players in fleet, means they get rewarded and have the difficulty that match their SP. Older characters won't do low end missions, specially not in fleet as it's not worthwhile, if they want fleet PvE they can easily join something more worthwhile.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#54 - 2012-07-04 16:58:17 UTC
Giving the players incentive to group up is the way about it.

All AI's should have sleeper AI's. It is way more fun that way.

Epic arc should have several missions where you should be unable to solo.


Who the **** wants to solo in a multiplier (pun intended) game any way.

Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
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