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The turning point of EVE, five years ago.

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TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#61 - 2012-07-02 16:22:36 UTC
Ahh, the days when goons were a good alliance...

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
SegaPhoenix
Chicks on Speed
#62 - 2012-07-02 16:31:28 UTC
Tortuga - Lacrimosa, The best player generated EvE Online video ever produced.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NDBbt2yBII
Phoebe Buffet
Dirty Martini Clinical Operations
#63 - 2012-07-02 16:31:28 UTC
While during that campaign you forgot the part where BoB invaded Tribute and was kicked out by Morsus Mihi......twice.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#64 - 2012-07-02 16:58:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Metal Icarus wrote:
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
I'd speculate that Goons have the stick-ability to handle a protracted campaign on the other side of the universe. The issue to contend with will be the upcoming tech nerf.

I'm tempted to speculate that controlling Delve is more about moon income diversity than goons are willing to say, but such speculation would be futile.

Speculation? in F20 the CFC dropped a station to stage from....

Not a pos, didnt pick a nearby station, nope they build a "20 Billion Isk staging tower"

Futile because its obvious?

Yeah it's called "20 BIllion Isk Staging Tower" isn't it? We even have sov.

But unless you think there's some serious lying going on, TEST and co (honeybadgers) will be splitting up delve and so on. It would be odd if the idea of diversifying is to go down and not want any of the moons. Or even sov.

I think GSF will be holding a few systems or something (logistics must be happy to not deal with too much) and we'll see how that goes. If the (ohsobrokenforceprojection) Jump Bridges are up, it'll be a nice highway right to someone's front door.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#65 - 2012-07-02 17:17:49 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Danfen Fenix wrote:
Great read, taught me quite a bit Smile

Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ? Straight


Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They went from being the courageous resistance to becoming the evil empire. They have no one to fight in null-sec so they come to empire to kick the carebears around.


You dont get out much (or in fact read much) do you?

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Dervinus
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#66 - 2012-07-02 17:29:49 UTC
What a great read James! As someone who has come into the game just over a year ago, I have fought in every major TEST and CFC campaign from the mop-up of Headshot VFK to Delve 4, Curse, Vale, Geminate, Branch, Tenal, and Delve 5. While these have been awesome campaigns with some amazing battles, it doesnt sound like any of them compare to the bad old days. I wish I had know the depth of Eve back then and had been involved in it. Thanks for the history lesson - this stuff is what makes Eve so different from anything else!

o7 toonies
Crimsonjade
Reikoku
Plug N Play
#67 - 2012-07-02 17:45:24 UTC
was interesting reading that History. realizing i saw alot of the war in various corps, its reminding me how someone needs to do one of the first great war. where BoB had to become BoB, as its a good a read as this. with way more backstabing and vile piratesPirate
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#68 - 2012-07-02 17:53:39 UTC
Rico Minali wrote:
Zyress wrote:
Danfen Fenix wrote:
Great read, taught me quite a bit Smile

Gotta say though, imo, the goons from back then sound so much more...'respectable' ? (can't think of another word... :P ), then they are now. What happened to them ? Straight

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. They went from being the courageous resistance to becoming the evil empire. They have no one to fight in null-sec so they come to empire to kick the carebears around.

You dont get out much (or in fact read much) do you?

It's funny because we're kicking down Delve's door and shooting it up.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Adalun Dey
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-07-02 18:20:54 UTC
There is rarely a thread with such a long first post that's worth reading. This one was though. Nicely illustrated and told with an I-was-there and Eve-is-real vibe to it. If you don't already write reviews, have a column or keep a blog, James, please do, would love to read more.

also

Goons have the best propaganda evah!

[i]" Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand, I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. "[/i]
Galavet
Reikoku
Plug N Play
#70 - 2012-07-02 18:26:10 UTC
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
While during that campaign you forgot the part where BoB invaded Tribute and was kicked out by Morsus Mihi......twice.


While most of what James notes is one sided BS, everything you have said is 100% BS.

Oh and End Yourselves, just for old-times sake.
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-07-02 18:40:04 UTC
Wow, that was a nice read. Nice job. Almost made Goon and company sound like heroes. Funny how things change..
Pontifex Rex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-07-02 19:00:45 UTC
Nice post man. I wish I had played Eve during that period. Glad I am involved in a big war now!
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#73 - 2012-07-02 19:04:13 UTC
9-980U was BoB 's turning point in July of '07
I called it our Stalingrad, after that it was down hill on two fronts.

Just couldn't move further at the end of a long supply line. Awesome battle and campaign, its too bad the war couldn't have ended more heroic, the goons cheated themselves of the greatest glory, an epic legend. PP

Empire, the next new world order.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#74 - 2012-07-02 19:12:33 UTC
Galavet wrote:
Phoebe Buffet wrote:
While during that campaign you forgot the part where BoB invaded Tribute and was kicked out by Morsus Mihi......twice.


While most of what James notes is one sided BS, everything you have said is 100% BS.

Oh and End Yourselves, just for old-times sake.


Agreed that the tales of Dev favoratism are a bit... distorted (although a very good read).

However Phoebe is not incorrect. The last time around we killed Shrike's Titan twice in as many days.

If I dig around I should be able to find my kill mail of the first and my sons kill mail of the second.

Not intended to steal Goon thunder though. Nice read. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#75 - 2012-07-03 01:28:48 UTC
ISD Tyrozan wrote:
This thread has been cleaned due to violations of Rule 15, Impersonating another forum user, moderator, volunteer, administrator or CCP employee is strictly prohibited.



hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-07-03 03:39:38 UTC
hedge betts Shiyurida wrote:
Zastrow wrote:
I don't know that I'll ever be involved in anything as truly epic as The Great EVE war in any game, ever. Man those were golden days. On one hand EVE mechanics were so much worse than they are now, but the posting, the propaganda, the diplomacy, the shadow wars and spying... There were no holds barred and it was glorious. As Goonswarm's logistics director at the time I would stay up all night long anchoring POS, I would log in during lectures in class to time stront, I did all of these ridiculous things without question and with no regrets. I wish there could ever be a space conflict so grand again, but I don't know that we'll ever see one.
id speculate that the current war has more potential.

CFC are going head to head with soco. Goons have pissed off a lot of high sec players,. CFC have to be mindful not to get into a trench war or they could find them self fighting a three ground war.

Exciting times


Hahahaha you almost come off as if you know what you are talking about.

Soco is full of garbage, is currently ceding sov to us, rarely undocking with anything more damaging than stealth bombers (Honestly this is starting to look like IT Alliance part 2). The only chance they had in this war was a strong defense and holding the timers of all systems into euro TZ where we are arguably a lot weaker. Now if they want the space back they are going to have to fight in mid to late US prime... where they can't get the numbers to effectively fight us. The "War" has been mismanaged on their end in the extreme.

As far as pissing off highsec players... who cares? Only one or two groups in that entire morass of idiots could slap together a competent fleet composition. A well balanced 255 man fleet with the right logi and support will wipe the floor with whatever pubstar kitchen fleet garbage highsec could throw at us. But feel free to bring out all your officer fit ratting bhalgorns. I'll be sure to quake in my boots in my drake where half the modules were picked off of rats.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#77 - 2012-07-03 03:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Soco is full of garbage, is currently ceding sov to us, rarely undocking with anything more damaging than stealth bombers (Honestly this is starting to look like IT Alliance part 2). The only chance they had in this war was a strong defense and holding the timers of all systems into euro TZ where we are arguably a lot weaker. Now if they want the space back they are going to have to fight in mid to late US prime... where they can't get the numbers to effectively fight us. The "War" has been mismanaged on their end in the extreme.

Well I wouldn't worry because if all goes as planned we will be "tired" and pushing into a FOURTH region (-A-'s home) and their home has their timers and thus a great revers----

Actually no. Because we'll still be blobbing them. Delve is the new cobalt edge, SoCo is the new IRC.

Resistance is futile, we will farm your structure killmails and your comm leaks.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#78 - 2012-07-03 04:09:09 UTC
No content.

Mods, please lock.

No-one cares anymore OP. Hate to break that to you, but....yeah.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-07-04 11:16:20 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Watooshi Makoochji wrote:
Propaganda or not, well written and very interesting James 315!

However, your central premise, that Goons heroic resistance of BoB 'saved' the game, exemplified in the following quote

Quote:
Had the Goons retreated, or had BoB succeeded in its goal of defeating the RSF, it is no exaggeration to say that no one reading this thread would be playing EVE today. BoB's dream of total control of EVE would have been realized, but EVE would have died as a result.


is baldly speculative and quite possibly grossly exaggerative.

Certainly the history is fascinating, and I imagine that your version of it is a reasonably accurate and complete rendition. But stating in such an absolute way that "Goon's resistance" saved the day is over the top.

This sort of rhetoric tends to arouse suspicion and mistrust among the levelheaded neutrals of the universe and seems likely to provide 'ammuntion' for your detractors.

You did a good job of saving up and leaving the most outrageous hyperbole till that final paragraph. But I reckon your overall success at enthralling or beguiling your readers would've been strengthened had you simply said something like:

"By refusing to retreat, and thwarting BoB in its goal of defeating the RSF, Goons certainly contributed decisively to the shape of the EVE online world today. One might even wonder aloud, 'If BoB's dream of total control of EVE had been realized, might EVE online have died as a result?"

There you see? Now instead of making the speculative and empirically untestable _assertion_ that Goons are heroes who saved EVE from death as a game, you simply plant the question in your readers head as to whether Goons MIGHT be the hero Big smile



See, the thing is BoB didn't have allies, they had pets. Basically *all* the "lol pets!" of today stems from what BoB did. You either did what BoB wanted, or they screwed you over with overwhelming numbers.

The CFC on the other hand are allies of one another, and they don't have an Owner > pet relationship, such that BoB were famous for reveling in.

By "saving EvE" James is talking about putting an end to a trend where the whole of EvE had two choices
a) Sit in highsec
b) Succumbto BoB's way of doing things.

I feel it's an accurate assessment.

An acute analogy might be to look at how Rome treated their Protectorate states, vs how a modern superpower treats an ally, for instance.


Mmm, fair enough. That rendition is a bit more believable. Though tbh I still am not wholly convinced. I conveyed the essence of this thread to some of the long-time players in my group (guys with 2004-2006 toons who have consistently been active). They were not particularly convinced.

Whoever are the brains behind Goons are clealry smart, innovative, passionate and strategically visionary guys/gals who appreciate the grand potentials of Imperial struggles in this game. What they have accomplished with this sandbox is truly quite remarkable, and defeating BoB was clearly part of that.

But, like modern Superpowers (even the relatively democratic ones) it seems pretty obvious that the Leadership of Goons would be happy to gobble up all of it if they are able . . . and who could really blame them? It is sandbox after all, and it would be remarkable if any single alliance did manage to envelope Empire and take sovereignty of it all!

That is where it gets interesting really: Goons are clearly NOT the only group who have smart, innovative, passionate and maybe even strategically visionary guys/gals in charge and I for one am really looking forward to another historic struggle. However, it turns out it seems likely to be epic. As with all great struggles the victors will 'write the history' as Goons has clearly sought to do in this instance.

The main incongruity that really hangs me up is this: CCP are clearly the smartest, most innovative, passioante and strategically visionary guys/gals of them all. After all it is THEIR game. I don't know anything about the publishers history except that there was a point a few years back where the game seems to have been in danger of extinction, and I'm not talking about this BoB-Goons struggle, but rather the period were lag was crippling the game.

In spite of being 'in control' of one of the most complex game ecologies ever and having devs/GMs/ISOs who MAY have been doing unauthorized things that damaged the game CCP has managed to keep it together and even seemingly herald in a new era for EVE Online.

If we are gonna salute Goons for having 'saved the game' from BoB (and by implication CCP) 'tyranny' and 'corruption,' then it seems to me we need to give an even bigger salute to CCP's subsequent leadership for having provided the evolving gameworld where it all takes place.

Maybe soon we will all be in a position to salute Goon's adversaries for having saved the game from "The Era of HulkaTerror" Smile
Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-07-04 11:26:00 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Soco is full of garbage, is currently ceding sov to us, rarely undocking with anything more damaging than stealth bombers (Honestly this is starting to look like IT Alliance part 2). The only chance they had in this war was a strong defense and holding the timers of all systems into euro TZ where we are arguably a lot weaker. Now if they want the space back they are going to have to fight in mid to late US prime... where they can't get the numbers to effectively fight us. The "War" has been mismanaged on their end in the extreme.

As far as pissing off highsec players... who cares? Only one or two groups in that entire morass of idiots could slap together a competent fleet composition. A well balanced 255 man fleet with the right logi and support will wipe the floor with whatever pubstar kitchen fleet garbage highsec could throw at us. But feel free to bring out all your officer fit ratting bhalgorns. I'll be sure to quake in my boots in my drake where half the modules were picked off of rats.


Superlative trash talk!