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The future of Community and CCL

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None ofthe Above
#321 - 2012-07-01 12:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Continued from the previous page. Bold italic is my post that DeMicheal is responding to.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:


2 - I won't be using the word censorship here, as its inappropriate. This is a private forum and CCP has the right to set the rules of the forums. But it also needs to set them in a way that fosters the kind of community it wants. Setting policies are actions, and actions have consequences. Its perfectly reasonable that the community would want to discuss or protest policies and and specific moderations, and get upset if they feel they are prevented from doing so.

The rules and policies have already been established. If the community has an issue with it they can voice their opinion and protest it in the correct venue, such as file a petition with Customer Service and or contact Internal Affairs.


Can't discuss it here? Way to make a mockery of this thread. You carefully sidestepped the whole point about consequences to this type of policy, FYI.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:

3 - The no discussing moderation rule makes some sense, but causes more difficulties than just about anything else on the forums. Perhaps a moderation discussion forum? All that in one place so discussions (something like this fine thread) can take place but not overwhelm everything else. Clear ability to dispute specific incidents and moderation policy is needed in environments like this.

Again this is another bad idea. Basically this can be easily exploited by players trying to gain control and dictate how moderation should be conducted as well as openly crucify moderators. That is not our place to decide that. CCP set's the rules and policies. This is their house. Again as in the previous point, if the community has a problem or issue, they need to voice it in the correct venue, Customer Service and Internal Affairs.


Ugh like that is likely to work. Again no public discussions. This creates an echo chamber for all CCL to sit around and get farther and farther out of touch, convinced that they are doing just fine.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:

4 - Moderation needs to back off at least a little, IMHO, when substantive topics are being discussed. It really sucks to see valid points squashed just because the poster got a little heated. Forums become useless if people can't communicate.

No, the community needs to follow the policies as set forth in the Forum Rules. If Moderation backs off, the forums will just go back to how it was before. Too many times a topic has quickly derailed into a massive flame war due to posters becoming a little heated. There's a big difference between constructive communication and verbal assault. Where there's smoke, there's a fire and as such, it needs to be put out asap.


I sort of agree here, but have seen instances of over zealous moderation smother proper communication, there has to be a balance.

FYI - I never suggested that moderation should back off to the point of letting things go back to the way it was. I just want to see some intelligent moderation of the moderation.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:

5 - Threads should probably not be locked because other posters are spamming it and its gone off topic. This opens the door to abuse as people who do not want something discussed can "shiptoast" up the thread and get it locked.

This I agree with, those replies should be removed and the thread put back on track. The offending character should be warned via Eve mail along with account Email address. If they continue after being warned, they should be banned. A good rule for that is the 3 strike count. However, if the thread continues to derail, it should be locked. Again the 3 strike rule could apply. If it's in the wrong sub forum, it needs to be moved. Also if the thread is non conforming to forum rules, it needs to be deleted.


Wow almost an agreement on a change of policy. Good thing we can discuss such things, yes?

You still leave it open for malfeasant forum warriors to organize and squelch discussions by getting off topic on a valid thread three times. It's not like the thread is a thing in itself that willfully went off-topic and should be punished.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:

6 - There are times when a truly offensive post needs to stand. For example, during the last CSM election season several candidates made posts so bad they had to be removed by moderation (not sure that was ISD at that point, but I am sure the issue is bound to come up next year). The problem with this is it essentially white-washed the incident from the voters mind. At least one of said candidates went on to win a seat. Imagine if the news suppressed American presidential candidate Perry's "OOPS" moment as a mistake, or refused to discuss Romney's bullying incident? Lets not let moderation overwhelm important points and information. (While personal attacks against candidates, if not properly substantiated, are probably off limits and rightly moderated.) Alternatively, if it's so bad you can't leave it on the forums, maybe that person should be removed from the ballot.

There's a very fine line here. Letting an offensive post stand only breeds discontent and rage. There was an excessive amount of trolling happening in candidates threads trying to derail them right and left. A lot of mud slinging going on as well as posting off topic replies intended to berate, demean and incite rage. All of which is against the forum rules. If there is factual truth to counter their candidacy platform, it should be presented in a civil manner as per forum rules.



Missing the point that the candidates themselves were the ones out of line. Cleaning up their mess may have shaped the election. May do so again in the future.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
RAP ACTION HERO
#322 - 2012-07-01 15:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: RAP ACTION HERO
in da dmc zone, spam report button enough and a few will hit.

vitoc erryday
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#323 - 2012-07-01 16:47:41 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:



4 - Moderation needs to back off at least a little, IMHO, when substantive topics are being discussed. It really sucks to see valid points squashed just because the poster got a little heated. Forums become useless if people can't communicate.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:

No, the community needs to follow the policies as set forth in the Forum Rules. If Moderation backs off, the forums will just go back to how it was before. Too many times a topic has quickly derailed into a massive flame war due to posters becoming a little heated. There's a big difference between constructive communication and verbal assault. Where there's smoke, there's a fire and as such, it needs to be put out asap.


I sort of agree here, but have seen instances of over zealous moderation smother proper communication, there has to be a balance.



Point 4 is very true but also ...... kind of trival. Every moderator may close thread topic hulkageddon the 114th without hesitation while too much moderation of a thread like Goon 4X4 ing thread might just breed rage.

1. Different moderation for different forums
2. Different moderation for different topics


Checking the content of the ISD seminars ISD seminar gave me some mixed feeling about CCL moderator education ..... as i see none of the issues we discussed here listed as seminar content.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:


The best way to look at it is like this. Moderators are the school teachers/ social workers, the forums are the classrooms and we are the students. For too long the teachers have been out of the classrooms allowing us students to run a muck in the classrooms.



For moderating a thread like Destruction Testing the New Wardec System (Ganks Included - Free wardec inside) one may need social skills. Knowledge about fleet Maneuvering is secondary.


None ofthe Above wrote:


6 - There are times when a truly offensive post needs to stand. For example, during the last CSM election season several candidates made posts so bad they had to be removed by moderation (not sure that was ISD at that point, but I am sure the issue is bound to come up next year). The problem with this is it essentially white-washed the incident from the voters mind.
DeMichael Crimson wrote:



There's a very fine line here. Letting an offensive post stand only breeds discontent and rage. There was an excessive amount of trolling happening in candidates threads trying to derail them right and left. A lot of mud slinging going on as well as posting off topic replies intended to berate, demean and incite rage. All of which is against the forum rules. If there is factual truth to counter their candidacy platform, it should be presented in a civil manner as per forum rules.



Missing the point that the candidates themselves were the ones out of line. Cleaning up their mess may have shaped the election. May do so again in the future.


Moderation of CSM threads is a special case .... which we probaply shouldn't tackle here as long as CCL hasn't achieved/decided about its primary goal.


Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#324 - 2012-07-01 16:54:40 UTC
Kyshonuba wrote:



Checking the content of the ISD seminars ISD seminar gave me some mixed feeling about CCL moderator education ..... as i see none of the issues we discussed here listed as seminar content.





Just thought I should point out that the ISD Seminars have absolutely nothing to do with CCL, nor forum moderation. They are seminars held by ISD STAR members to aid players in learning about the game, and to assist in moderating the ingame help channels.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#325 - 2012-07-01 17:52:22 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


Just thought I should point out that the ISD Seminars have absolutely nothing to do with CCL, nor forum moderation. They are seminars held by ISD STAR members to aid players in learning about the game, and to assist in moderating the ingame help channels.


I followed the link navigator provided at the topic start

CCP Navigator wrote:



......
• The Community team will hold regular Skype voice chats with volunteers and address their concerns, assist them with any training they may require and help answer any of their queries
• We will aim to have an ISD Seminar for the CCL at the earliest opportunity. Hopefully this can be sometime in July but may run over into August due to vacations and Alliance Tournament.
• We will provide moderation log access to the Admirals and Captains so that they can fully see what the ISD team are editing/deleting. This access does not compromise any of your personal information or show any warning or ban history. It literally shows the content of deleted posts, edited/original content and who carried that out.
• Increase the volunteer team by a further six people over the coming weeks and provide a stable structure for an easier flow of communication between CCP and the volunteers so that they can get advice on moderation actions if they are required.

Thank you for your time.

The EVE Community and CCL teams
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#326 - 2012-07-01 17:54:36 UTC
Kyshonuba wrote:

• We will aim to have an ISD Seminar for the CCL at the earliest opportunity. Hopefully this can be sometime in July but may run over into August due to vacations and Alliance Tournament.


I think you may have jumped the gun ever so slightly.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#327 - 2012-07-01 18:06:54 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Kyshonuba wrote:

• We will aim to have an ISD Seminar for the CCL at the earliest opportunity. Hopefully this can be sometime in July but may run over into August due to vacations and Alliance Tournament.


I think you may have jumped the gun ever so slightly.


My rants are about ISD seminar content ... not about the timing. Follow the link and you get a summary of ISD seminar content. ....it looks all to technical for my taste.
But maybe CCP Navigator is just unclear about which kind of seminars ISD members and which kind CCL members get.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#328 - 2012-07-01 18:12:43 UTC
Kyshonuba wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Kyshonuba wrote:

• We will aim to have an ISD Seminar for the CCL at the earliest opportunity. Hopefully this can be sometime in July but may run over into August due to vacations and Alliance Tournament.


I think you may have jumped the gun ever so slightly.


My rants are about ISD seminar content ... not about the timing. Follow the link and you get a summary of ISD seminar content. ....it looks all to technical for my taste.
But maybe CCP Navigator is just unclear about which kind of seminars ISD members and which kind CCL members get.



Current ISD seminars are aimed at teaching players about the game. I believe Navigator is talking about the possibility of starting seminars for the CCL members as part of their training, and that these may start sometime this month. Having long standing ISD STAR members taking part in those seminars in conjunction with CCP staff makes sense, as STAR members not only assist players in the in-game chat channels, they also have to moderate those channels, so they have a wealth of experience.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#329 - 2012-07-01 18:38:41 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Kyshonuba wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Kyshonuba wrote:

• We will aim to have an ISD Seminar for the CCL at the earliest opportunity. Hopefully this can be sometime in July but may run over into August due to vacations and Alliance Tournament.


I think you may have jumped the gun ever so slightly.


My rants are about ISD seminar content ... not about the timing. Follow the link and you get a summary of ISD seminar content. ....it looks all to technical for my taste.
But maybe CCP Navigator is just unclear about which kind of seminars ISD members and which kind CCL members get.



Current ISD seminars are aimed at teaching players about the game. I believe Navigator is talking about the possibility of starting seminars for the CCL members as part of their training, and that these may start sometime this month. Having long standing ISD STAR members taking part in those seminars in conjunction with CCP staff makes sense, as STAR members not only assist players in the in-game chat channels, they also have to moderate those channels, so they have a wealth of experience.


That is not correct, Cutter. The ISD Seminar, we have planned is a Q&A session with the Community Team and the CCL team.

More details about it will follow soon. Big smile

ISD Eshtir

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons

Interstellar Services Department
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#330 - 2012-07-01 19:15:53 UTC
ISD Eshtir wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Kyshonuba wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Kyshonuba wrote:

• We will aim to have an ISD Seminar for the CCL at the earliest opportunity. Hopefully this can be sometime in July but may run over into August due to vacations and Alliance Tournament.


I think you may have jumped the gun ever so slightly.


My rants are about ISD seminar content ... not about the timing. Follow the link and you get a summary of ISD seminar content. ....it looks all to technical for my taste.
But maybe CCP Navigator is just unclear about which kind of seminars ISD members and which kind CCL members get.



Current ISD seminars are aimed at teaching players about the game. I believe Navigator is talking about the possibility of starting seminars for the CCL members as part of their training, and that these may start sometime this month. Having long standing ISD STAR members taking part in those seminars in conjunction with CCP staff makes sense, as STAR members not only assist players in the in-game chat channels, they also have to moderate those channels, so they have a wealth of experience.


That is not correct, Cutter. The ISD Seminar, we have planned is a Q&A session with the Community Team and the CCL team.

More details about it will follow soon. Big smile



Oooh, shiny!! Happy to be proven wrong in this instance. Will these seminars become a regular thing?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#331 - 2012-07-01 23:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:
in da dmc zone, spam report button enough and a few will hit.

Don't know what your problem is but you've been stalking me in quite a few different threads. Seems you're bound and determined to dance the tango with me.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2012-07-02 01:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Kyshonuba wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
4 - Moderation needs to back off at least a little, IMHO, when substantive topics are being discussed. It really sucks to see valid points squashed just because the poster got a little heated. Forums become useless if people can't communicate.

DeMichael Crimson wrote:
No, the community needs to follow the policies as set forth in the Forum Rules. If Moderation backs off, the forums will just go back to how it was before. Too many times a topic has quickly derailed into a massive flame war due to posters becoming a little heated. There's a big difference between constructive communication and verbal assault. Where there's smoke, there's a fire and as such, it needs to be put out asap.

I sort of agree here, but have seen instances of over zealous moderation smother proper communication, there has to be a balance.

Point 4 is very true but also ...... kind of trival. Every moderator may close thread topic hulkageddon the 114th without hesitation while too much moderation of a thread like Goon 4X4 ing thread might just breed rage.

1. Different moderation for different forums
2. Different moderation for different topics

Checking the content of the ISD seminars ISD seminar gave me some mixed feeling about CCL moderator education ..... as i see none of the issues we discussed here listed as seminar content.

That 4x4 thread needed to be deleted, plain and simple. It consistently broke a multitude of different forum rules. The OP was a 3 post rant created specifically to incite rage and insult various groups of players. It contained personal attacks and gloated about exploiting a bug within the game. That type of thread is unacceptable and proves how desperately these forums need moderation.

Different moderation for different forums? Different moderation for different topics?

That is completely counter productive, not to mention places undue hardship on moderators. Basically you're trying to dictate how moderation should be conducted, thus allowing players a way to manipulate and exploit the Forum Rules.

There's only one issue here that needs to be addressed - Certain specific players have been willfully and blatantly disregarding the Forum Rules. They were held accountable for their actions and now after inciting forum rage, are trying to dictate how the forum rules should be interpreted as well as gain some sort of control over moderation.

Kyshonuba wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
The best way to look at it is like this. Moderators are the school teachers/ social workers, the forums are the classrooms and we are the students. For too long the teachers have been out of the classrooms allowing us students to run a muck in the classrooms.

For moderating a thread like Destruction Testing the New Wardec System (Ganks Included - Free wardec inside) one may need social skills. Knowledge about fleet Maneuvering is secondary.

Please do not edit something else into a quoted statement of mine and then try to use that to justify your own viewpoint. You added "/ social workers" to my statement.

The one may need social skills are the players who feel they are entitled to disregard the Forum Rules.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
RAP ACTION HERO
#333 - 2012-07-02 02:32:02 UTC
That 4x4 thread needed to be deleted, plain and simple. It consistently broke a multitude of different forum rules. The OP was a meaningless 1 liner created specifically to incite rage and insult those who abide by the original intent of the like system. It contained nothing but gloating about how people can post gibberish and get likes. That thread is devoid of content, which is the most sited charge when locking threads, yet it stands. That type of thread is unacceptable and proves how desperately these forums need unbiased moderation.

vitoc erryday
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#334 - 2012-07-02 02:44:12 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


The one may need social skills are the players who feel they are entitled to disregard the Forum Rules.


You made it clear, that you wish CCL to go hard on the trolls and you wont accept some extent of polemic/trolling in some special forum area's because Quote : "That is completely counter productive, not to mention places undue hardship on moderators"


CCP Navigator made this statement on page 3

CCP Navigator wrote:
Quaaid wrote:


Making plans around self-defining GD when the community has already defined it for you will end poorly.

I have years of gaming forum moderation experience under my belt, and hold three things to always be true:
- There needs to be an outlet for crap posts
- People want their crap posts to be seen
- Your most popular board will therefore be the natural home of crap posts


You can solve this problem in a number of ways:
- Create a feedback forum for your intentions, leaving General to be General (Quaaid Approved)
- Create a crap post forum, and let the trolls have it as you repurpose General to be your feedback hub ( mild end user change, harder to impliment)
- Stay the course, and learn the hard lessons, perhaps succeed where others have failed (constricting end user change, imminent failure)





'Crap posts' are not necessarily a problem. Abusive, spiteful and hateful posts most certainly are.

There are a wealth of forums which cater to this type of posting but this will not be one of them.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#335 - 2012-07-02 03:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Yonis Kador
"I" certainly wasn't banned and I'm here trying to debate the merits of forum moderation relative to its enforcement.

Some of you guys (two with particular zest) are advocating such a strict adherence to the rules that imo it wouldn't necessarily be beneficial. How's it working out so far? The effects are uncertain because so are the rules. Obedience to rules isn't even something readily cultivated by this particular community. The people who frequent these forums aren't stupid. An iron grip based on inconsistently-enforced, interpretive rules will be challenged - consistently. So I'm not at all sold on these predictions of forum Shangri-La if the military moves into town.

I support a more balanced approach. My position is that language and personal attacks (with an attack being blatantly obvious) should of course be moderated. But people need to feel secure that bias and favoritism will not be a factor here and for that all we have are other players' words. Which means nothing. Trust isn't an asset in EvE. Even the people I like I suspect could abuse the privilege at any time.

So today for example, I logged onto GD and the first topic was: "So The Mittani is Invading rest of free Eve?! ( Sarcasms sign hold up )"

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=127453&p=1

and I thought, as usual, the obligatory Goon topic, let's see what's inside.

In the very first comment I read:

"
ISD Stenneson wrote:
Edit: Title changed. No associations with real life politicians and offenders please. Bringing real life in the game is not good idea. - ISD Stensson


This was written yesterday. Now where in the rules does it say that talking about "real life" is not a good idea? Forum rules state topics must be eve-related. That's it. So how are real-world comparisons, when used to demonstrate an in-game situation, a bad idea? Yes, I know the subject matter in this particular case is sensitive. But as long as the reference is in a historical context and not about glorifying real-world politics, a historical reference should be OK. We are adults. Should slavery also fall under this umbrella of moderation to protect the sensibilities of certain ethnicities? There are slaves in the game! I mean where does it end.

There is no end, because it's going to be selectively enforced, so it's these personal determinations I take issue with.

All I know is that there's only one sure outcome of iron grip moderation and rampant "no content" locks...

less communication.

And in a public forum, that is an odd thing to celebrate.

Whether you agree/disagree that what's left is better or worse, forum rules should be clearly defined and not open to these personal interpretations of content. If CCLs are locking a 150 page thread that is actively being participated in, "no content" shouldn't even be an option anymore. And the specific rule violated should be posted following EVERY correction imo.

No officer issues a ticket without telling you what law you broke.

Yonis Kador
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#336 - 2012-07-02 06:41:33 UTC
Such a flair for the dramatics. Talk about blowing things out of proportion. While there is definite insinuations being directed to 2 specific players (by the way, there's more than just us 2 players with the same viewpoint), I'll try to maintain a respectful reply. For the past few years there has been a very noticeable relaxed adherence to the rules, basically a lack of moderation which many believe has been detrimental to the overall community spirit.

How has that been beneficial to the community and this sub-forum?


Yonis Kador wrote:

So today for example, I logged onto GD and the first topic was: "So The Mittani is Invading rest of free Eve?! ( Sarcasms sign hold up )"

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=127453&p=1

and I thought, as usual, the obligatory Goon topic, let's see what's inside.

In the very first comment I read:

"
ISD Stenneson wrote:
Edit: Title changed. No associations with real life politicians and offenders please. Bringing real life in the game is not good idea. - ISD Stensson


This was written yesterday. Now where in the rules does it say that talking about "real life" is not a good idea? Forum rules state topics must be eve-related. That's it. So how are real-world comparisons, when used to demonstrate an in-game situation, a bad idea? Yes, I know the subject matter in this particular case is sensitive. But as long as the reference is in a historical context and not about glorifying real-world politics, a historical reference should be OK. We are adults. Should slavery also fall under this umbrella of moderation to protect the sensibilities of certain ethnicities? There are slaves in the game! I mean where does it end.

There is no end, because it's going to be selectively enforced, so it's these personal determinations I take issue with.

Yonis Kador


Instead of just quickly jumping on the bandwagon and claiming 'Biased' and 'Favoritism' moderation, how about doing a little bit of research?

http://eve-search.com/thread/127453-1

That was definitely a good move by moderation and he even gave a reason for it. I don't care for 'The Mittani' myself but that thread title was way out of line and needed to be changed. Even after 65 years, that historical name and events associated with that name is still the most hated topic existing in the world today.

Most people would not like being tagged with that historical entity and would be greatly offended by it. The OP of that thread picked a specific real life historical entity that is known to generate a lot of hate and rage. I guess some people like it and think it's acceptable behavior to incite rage in other people. Obviously the only reason they do it is due to hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet. Guarantee they wouldn't be doing it in person.

I could post all sorts of counter points to those wanting to dictate and control how moderation is conducted but I actually like playing this game and quite frankly, responding to all of them will take too much time. Obviously the 4 or 5 people in this thread who keep pushing for that have a vested interest in being able to incite rage and verbally assault other players at leisure.

All societies have rules set in place for their communities to follow. Those who willfully and habitually break those rules will suffer the consequences for their actions. The FORUM RULES are clearly stated and need to be enforced. Those who don't want to abide by those rules don't have to post in these forums.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Kyshonuba
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#337 - 2012-07-02 07:54:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyshonuba
DeMichael Crimson wrote:



Instead of just quickly jumping on the bandwagon and claiming 'Biased' and 'Favoritism' moderation, how about doing a little bit of research?

.


Care to prove where Yonis Kador is "jumping on the bandwagon and claiming 'Biased' and 'Favoritism' moderation" ?
Maybe you are only a fan of irongrip based forum moderation ...... because you yourself fail in realizing your own insulting posting style.

Quoting a wall of text, then subsummizing the posters intensions (willingly) in a wrong way without text proof is usually one of the very first steps before a topic goes into trolling & Off-topic
Pipa Porto
#338 - 2012-07-02 08:31:18 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


Instead of just quickly jumping on the bandwagon and claiming 'Biased' and 'Favoritism' moderation, how about doing a little bit of research?

http://eve-search.com/thread/127453-1

That was definitely a good move by moderation and he even gave a reason for it. I don't care for 'The Mittani' myself but that thread title was way out of line and needed to be changed. Even after 65 years, that historical name and events associated with that name is still the most hated topic existing in the world today.


Nobody ever claimed that the ISDs never made the right call in their moderation actions, or that topics and posts should never have their content moderated. The issue was that they went overboard and moderated many posts and threads that did not require moderation because, under even the strictest interpretation of the rules, they were fine.

Unless... maybe there's a rule against tucking in one's shirt...

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#339 - 2012-07-02 12:39:35 UTC
I think this thread has pretty much come to a shuddering halt now.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Pipa Porto
#340 - 2012-07-02 12:43:21 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
I think this thread has pretty much come to a shuddering halt now.


It's all a matter of waiting and seeing if there's improvement.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto