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Module activation delay. (Videos inside)

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Be4st
Back Passage Explorer's
#41 - 2012-04-29 19:52:21 UTC
The delay has gotten worse over the past few months. My insta-locking Dramiel is no longer used as a tackle on camps because of this. I have missed so many ships due to the activation delay :(
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#42 - 2012-04-29 20:56:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
I've had similar problems fo quite some time - must have either slowly crept in or occured at a time when I was not really playing.

I've also noticed some modules - especially faster cycling ones like guns - starting and ending their cycles quite far from the 6 o' clock position (so it starts with a quarter of the cycle completed and ends quite arbitrarily, which wasn't the case earlier iirc - I just can't nail the exact time when it started occuring because I was rather inactive for quite some time) .

Edit: Concerning the activation delay after locking with a hot module, I remember about 4 years ago, there was a rumour that just locking and then activating the module the instant you have the lock would always have been faster in one of the corps I was in at the time - I mostly flew bigger stuff at the time, so didn't do much testing to really confirm it.

Edit2: Came from a damned good tackler in the corp who made seemingly impossible tackles at the time, but as I said I can't really confirm it - he also locked targets in space as opposed to the overview, which - as we all know - is faster due to overview delay which was way worse until very recently. So I thought it may have been due to the latter.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#43 - 2012-04-29 20:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Starrakatt
Happened to me a few times lately, I remember that point was more or less instataneous with lock not too long ago, but it happened to me twice today, shooting `POINT!` on comms when I got lock with pre-activated point (2800mm scan res lock Stiletto) just to see the target warp away...

So yeah, maybe it worsened since last patch, don`t remember having issues with that in the past.

Edit:
Large Collidable Object wrote:

I've also noticed some modules - especially faster cycling ones like guns - starting and ending their cycles quite far from the 6 o' clock position (so it starts with a quarter of the cycle completed and ends quite arbitrarily, which wasn't the case earlier iirc - I just can't nail the exact time when it started occuring because I was rather inactive for quite some time) .

Looks like an old bug returning (I remember that from a while ago) or something new in relation with module activation delay/lag we are observing against lock time.

Join Celtic Anarchy!

Sneaky bastard.
Sol Tertia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-04-29 21:51:01 UTC
Mark Androcius wrote:

The way it could/should work:

you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not.
If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away.

Rule 1 of MMORPG programming: Never trust the client. It would be convenient to do so in all sorts of situations, sadly it just leads to exploits so the server has to make the decision and tell both clients.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#45 - 2012-04-29 22:41:15 UTC
Sol Tertia wrote:
Mark Androcius wrote:

The way it could/should work:

you click the scram and then the target - server get your request and calculates how long this would take you before activating - other persons client gets this info and determines if it can outrun it or not.
If not, scram works as intended, if he can he warps away.

Rule 1 of MMORPG programming: Never trust the client. It would be convenient to do so in all sorts of situations, sadly it just leads to exploits so the server has to make the decision and tell both clients.


That's why I suggest that pre fired modules should be server side instead of just client side... It would solve the entire problem, at the cost of the servers doing 1 extra request while locking the target(s)

That way the server could say the target is pointed if he hasn't warped before the lock is finished.

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#46 - 2012-05-03 10:25:58 UTC
Bump

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Deucaliona
Penumbra Institute
#47 - 2012-07-01 00:50:29 UTC
I've noticed this issue alot in the last couple weeks. Happened to me again 10 minutes ago so thought id look around to see if someone was talking about it.

Preactivated the point and get a lock. Start to call 'point' on comms then that changes to 'wtf' .

00:38:43 Notify Warp Disruptor II deactivates because its target, xxxxx, is not locked.
Maledictum Aideron
In Praise of Bacchus
#48 - 2012-07-01 03:28:57 UTC
I think the recent patch brought this to the forefront but it has been a problem for a while. I've certainly noticed more in the last couple weeks.
Pipa Porto
#49 - 2012-07-01 04:28:15 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
Bump


Stop that.



The server has Always operated on 1s Ticks. This isn't new. The only solution to this would be for the server to operate at 2HZ (at which point you'd start complaining about the .5s module delay).

The 1HZ server tick is not likely to change any time soon.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
No More Heroes
Sanctuary of Shadows
Dock Workers
#50 - 2012-07-01 08:09:36 UTC
Bubanni wrote:
So, I was thinking, could more poeple confirm they experienced this annoying delay? and how many would agree they want it optimized to "happen less" ?


Have experienced this many times. If I have you locked, I activate disruptor, you aren't in warp yet, you shouldn't get away. Fix please. Basically anything frigate sized can escape to or from any gate unless dictors or dumbs are present.

.
Sarah Podiene
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-07-01 11:42:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Podiene
CCP Paradox wrote:
Been watching this thread.
EDIT: Talked to some guys, I recommend you watch the EVE Keynote at Fanfest 2012.
In particular, CCP Veritas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NEJbwZCgNgU#t=4565s


He is not really talking about this particular problem. As mentioned before the problem with scrambling fast aligning ships is, that the server doesnt process the "finished locking" and "start scrambling" command on the same server tick. These are 1 second apart which means you always start scrambling (shooting, webbing etc) 1 second after you have locked the target even though you activated the modules before you locked the target.

I understand that its probably a bit complicated/cpu intensive to check all pending commands server side to see if someone started locking and activated his modules before the target was locked to start the module the millisecond the locking is finished.

I and probably everybody else could very well live with a compromise. If you activate a module (if its easier just do it for the scrambler and dont care about fixing the rest yet) while you have no targets locked and with the module waiting to activate (i.e. you have that crosshair like mouse with lines to the side and up/down) click on someone to target him, make this ONE command. Make a lock+scramble command which will be processed the millisecond the lock is finished. Its clear my modules are supposed to activate on that target i just clicked with the modules waiting. There's no reason to process that one command at different ticks...

Please fix this, its been a huge annoyance for every inty pilot for ages now and its one of those little things that would improve gameplay.


TL;DR: If you click with modules waiting for activation on someone to target and use that modules on him, merge the commands locking and start module together so they are processed at the same tick. (that would also make sure that the modules would activate on that target i clicked with them and not on something else i started locking later but finished locking earlier)
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#52 - 2012-07-01 23:54:12 UTC
Sarah Podiene wrote:

TL;DR: If you click with modules waiting for activation on someone to target and use that modules on him, merge the commands locking and start module together so they are processed at the same tick. (that would also make sure that the modules would activate on that target i clicked with them and not on something else i started locking later but finished locking earlier)


This is exactly what I had been asking for :)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#53 - 2012-07-02 00:04:36 UTC
I've been getting this problem for as long as I've been trying to kill people, which is nearly two years. You lock a target, your warp disruption module is active but you don't get the warp scrambling message and the target warps off. It's incredibly annoying, but I assumed it was some normal function of warp disruptor modules that they didn't activate until part way through their cycle.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2012-07-02 00:12:15 UTC
Yeah, the stuff in my keynote presentation isn't really related to the OP.

I haven't specifically looked at how pre-firing modules works, but I'm pretty sure it's all client-side processing today. I'm a fan of moving them server-side as y'all are talking about - not exactly a small change though. I'll talk to some folks and see where it might land on the List o' Stuff To Do.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-07-02 00:14:43 UTC
Yes I have also noticed the one sec or so delay when pre-firing your guns/mod. It never used to be that bad, it was nearly instant, or quick enough it appeared instant. I have found by not pre-firing my guns you can get rid of most of that 1 sec delay. Soon as you lock the target hit your F1-8 key and the mod/gun will near instantly due what it's supposed to.
Speaker4 theDead
Perkone
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-07-02 00:14:47 UTC
It's called introducing lag to make up for sloppy coding....Oops
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#57 - 2012-07-02 00:40:04 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
Yeah, the stuff in my keynote presentation isn't really related to the OP.

I haven't specifically looked at how pre-firing modules works, but I'm pretty sure it's all client-side processing today. I'm a fan of moving them server-side as y'all are talking about - not exactly a small change though. I'll talk to some folks and see where it might land on the List o' Stuff To Do.


I love you!

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
adam smash
Department of Gub'nent Welfare
Harkonnen Federation
#58 - 2012-07-02 01:39:58 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Miss Yanumano wrote:
Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it!



No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time.
In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible).

It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes.
I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point.


Talking about speed as if it matters for lat... full of fail.

You need what maybe 56k for eve?

Why waste your time anyway... they will never fix this your going to end up making this a feature (like TIDI)

Get the ******* UI fixed first (ROLL BACK)
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#59 - 2012-07-02 01:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
adam smash wrote:
Tanya Powers wrote:
Miss Yanumano wrote:
Wait, this isn't "intended" behaviour? Had this "problem" for as long as I can remember, if it can be fixed, then for the love of god, do it!



No it is not when it comes to your "landing" targeting a ship that has bigger align/warp time than you have a lock time.
In this specific window a lot of what can be considered as "small" issues in such an incredible game (hundreds of friends shooting each other in the same system is just incredible).

It's about 1 or 2 seconds, I have no specific theory about this issue other than this might and is probably related with overview lag and this means client/server issues no matter if you have a 100 or 5mb internet connexion. There's simply too much relative changing information fixed in that overview witch means at each one of your moves/actions all of these demand server/client changes.
I have an (good/bad?) idea on this specific stuff and think this can be improved by charging client side, would bring a lot more options and improvement areas for developers, free your screen of a huge window to let you profit of all those incredible textures/designs making your ships and space, this is not an option for game improvement at the end, it's mandatory at some point.


Talking about speed as if it matters for lat... full of fail.

You need what maybe 56k for eve?

Why waste your time anyway... they will never fix this your going to end up making this a feature (like TIDI)

Get the ******* UI fixed first (ROLL BACK)


Wouldn't mind it as a "feature" as it will make a huge game inpact in pvp... within the last year I am counting hundreds upon hundreds of ships that would have been caught and killed by me and my fleets if it wasn't because of this "issue" :) so if my favorite Dev manages to convince the others to change this, I can promis you it will directly impact alot of eve...

More ships will be caught and killed, this will both happen at gates and in open space (intercepters intercepting ships accross a distance, like vs a sniper and manageing to get a quick point before it warps)

more ships being caught and killed = more market activity as people will have to buy new ones...

win win

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-07-02 01:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
something i was wondering about the other day:

would it be possible to use some of the tidi tech to decrease the time between ticks when the server is running on low load without speeding up the actual time ?

should result in much less noticeable ticks in the game in low-load situations