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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Vengeance... How does this work? o.o

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Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#1 - 2012-07-01 22:26:39 UTC
After browsing through some ships, I found one that stood out... The Amarrian Vengeance. It's base armor resists are 50-35-63-80, and it's description says you get 5% bonus to armor resistances PER LEVEL of assault ships. Doing simple math, 80*1,25=100. Putting this into EFT though, I only got 85% explosion resistance... at maxed skills. Yet, I get a result of 85%, and even with 4 Armor Explosive Hardener II's, I can only reach 98,1% Explosive resistance... (Don't seem to get centus hardeners in EFT somehow...)

How does this work? What is the actual math behind it's explosive resistance?
(Also, is it possible to get a complete 100% resistance of any damage type on any ship, and if so, what would happen if that damage type struck?)

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
Cameron Zero
Sebiestor Tribe
#2 - 2012-07-01 22:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Zero
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
After browsing through some ships, I found one that stood out... The Amarrian Vengeance. It's base armor resists are 50-35-63-80, and it's description says you get 5% bonus to armor resistances PER LEVEL of assault ships. Doing simple math, 80*1,25=100. Putting this into EFT though, I only got 85% explosion resistance... at maxed skills. Yet, I get a result of 85%, and even with 4 Armor Explosive Hardener II's, I can only reach 98,1% Explosive resistance... (Don't seem to get centus hardeners in EFT somehow...)

How does this work? What is the actual math behind it's explosive resistance?
(Also, is it possible to get a complete 100% resistance of any damage type on any ship, and if so, what would happen if that damage type struck?)


Multiple resistance modules suffer diminishing returns. Unsure of the actual numbers, but the first has its listed effect, the second is less, and so on. I think after 3-4 modules, it's no longer worth adding more...

Ah, found this:

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. …"
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#3 - 2012-07-01 22:32:02 UTC
Cameron Zero wrote:
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
After browsing through some ships, I found one that stood out... The Amarrian Vengeance. It's base armor resists are 50-35-63-80, and it's description says you get 5% bonus to armor resistances PER LEVEL of assault ships. Doing simple math, 80*1,25=100. Putting this into EFT though, I only got 85% explosion resistance... at maxed skills. Yet, I get a result of 85%, and even with 4 Armor Explosive Hardener II's, I can only reach 98,1% Explosive resistance... (Don't seem to get centus hardeners in EFT somehow...)

How does this work? What is the actual math behind it's explosive resistance?
(Also, is it possible to get a complete 100% resistance of any damage type on any ship, and if so, what would happen if that damage type struck?)


Multiple resistance modules suffer diminishing returns. Unsure of the actual numbers, but the first has its listed effect, the second is less, and so on. I think after 3-4 modules, it's no longer worth adding more...

Ah, found this:

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty


I know of the stacking penalty, with a quick search in EFT however that gave the best result I could find... Other options like an energized explosive membrane II decreased it by 0,1%

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-07-01 22:54:41 UTC
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
After browsing through some ships, I found one that stood out... The Amarrian Vengeance. It's base armor resists are 50-35-63-80, and it's description says you get 5% bonus to armor resistances PER LEVEL of assault ships. Doing simple math, 80*1,25=100. Putting this into EFT though, I only got 85% explosion resistance... at maxed skills. Yet, I get a result of 85%, and even with 4 Armor Explosive Hardener II's, I can only reach 98,1% Explosive resistance... (Don't seem to get centus hardeners in EFT somehow...)

How does this work? What is the actual math behind it's explosive resistance?
(Also, is it possible to get a complete 100% resistance of any damage type on any ship, and if so, what would happen if that damage type struck?)


As for the resists, no idea.

But if you get 100% on a resist it means you take no damage if that damage type is dealt
However, it also means you gimped your fit on one of the other resists. So enemy will just switch and turn your ship into a big explosion.

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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-07-01 22:57:24 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
After browsing through some ships, I found one that stood out... The Amarrian Vengeance. It's base armor resists are 50-35-63-80, and it's description says you get 5% bonus to armor resistances PER LEVEL of assault ships. Doing simple math, 80*1,25=100. Putting this into EFT though, I only got 85% explosion resistance... at maxed skills. Yet, I get a result of 85%, and even with 4 Armor Explosive Hardener II's, I can only reach 98,1% Explosive resistance... (Don't seem to get centus hardeners in EFT somehow...)

How does this work? What is the actual math behind it's explosive resistance?
(Also, is it possible to get a complete 100% resistance of any damage type on any ship, and if so, what would happen if that damage type struck?)


As for the resists, no idea.

But if you get 100% on a resist it means you take no damage if that damage type is dealt
However, it also means you gimped your fit on one of the other resists. So enemy will just switch and turn your ship into a big explosion.


I remember when Amarr only fired layzors Sad

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mxzf
Shovel Bros
#6 - 2012-07-01 22:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: mxzf
There's two things you're running into.

First off, there's the stacking penalty, as previously mentioned. The more things affecting something that you have, the less effective the future ones will have.

Second, there's the way resists are calculated. They're not additive, they're multiplicative, based on the remaining resist hole. For example, with 80% base resist, the ship bonus giving a bonus 25% resist will be 25% of the remaining hole (0.25*20%, which is 5%), which puts the explosive resist up to 85% before modules. However, it has a much greater effect on the Thermal resist, which goes from 35% to (0.25*65% = 16.25) 51.25%.

And if a ship were to get 100% resist to a damage type, it would become immune to that damage. However, I don't think that it's possible to get to 100% due to some pretty insane stacking penalties. The best I've been able to get in EFT is 99.7% resist in a completely impractical fit. However, that amount of resist would give it 333:1 damage reduction, which is pretty insane.

Also, keep in mind that the resist bonuses on the Damage Control are NOT stacking penalized, they're always good to have on pretty much any ship.

Also, to find faction/DED/officer gear in EFT, click the little buttons at the very bottom-left.

Also, to expand on the point J'Poll made with some numbers. The insane resist fit I threw together, a Proteus tanking Kin with a 1600 and T2 Trimark added in for real EHP while still having 99.7% resist, has 3.9M effective hitpoints (hitpoints taking resists into account) against Kin. However, it only has 47k EHP against Explosive (the second best resist is Therm, and that still only has 110k EHP).

So, the resists are amazing against that damage type, it can survive a Titan doomsdaying it (multiple times if sig is taken into account, I'm not sure). But, a decently skilled cruiser or two would wipe the floor with it as long as they were shooting anything but Kin. Fitting for only one damage type only works against NPCs, because players will just change damage types.
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#7 - 2012-07-01 23:05:17 UTC
mxzf wrote:
There's two things you're running into.

First off, there's the stacking penalty, as previously mentioned. The more things affecting something that you have, the less effective the future ones will have.

Second, there's the way resists are calculated. They're not additive, they're multiplicative, based on the remaining resist hole. For example, with 80% base resist, the ship bonus giving a bonus 25% resist will be 25% of the remaining hole (0.25*20%, which is 5%), which puts the explosive resist up to 85% before modules. However, it has a much greater effect on the Thermal resist, which goes from 35% to (0.25*65% = 16.25) 51.25%.

And if a ship were to get 100% resist to a damage type, it would become immune to that damage. However, I don't think that it's possible to get to 100% due to some pretty insane stacking penalties. The best I've been able to get in EFT is 99.7% resist in a completely impractical fit. However, that amount of resist would give it 333:1 damage reduction, which is pretty insane.

Also, keep in mind that the resist bonuses on the Damage Control are NOT stacking penalized, they're always good to have on pretty much any ship.

Also, to find faction/DED/officer gear in EFT, click the little buttons at the very bottom-left.


Ah, thanks, never knew that, guess that explains why a few theoretical fits i had in my had ended up being all wrong too :P

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
ISD Etetia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-07-01 23:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Etetia
So, it seems there's a bit of confusion as to how resistances are calculated

A good rule of thumb, is that resistance is always applied to the remaining pecentages. So in the example above, you have 80 % base resistance, leaving 20 % remaining

So in your example, you get 25% increased resistance through skills.
25% of the remaining 20 from above equals 5.
Add it to your 80% base resistance, and you have the 85% you got from the EFT readout.

There's no modules in the game, that applies a 100% resistance, and thus, you are only able to cut part of the remaining percentage away with each module. and will therefore never be able to reach the 100%. You can, however, get very close.

It's a bit being on your way home, and walk half the remaining distance every day. No matter how long you live, you will never actually get there.

I hope this clears it up

Edit: And, I got distracted and someone else posted a reply way before me. Read mxzf's reply instead Smile

ISD Etetia

Commander

ISD STAR / CCL Affiliate
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2012-07-01 23:15:48 UTC
For an actual fit for a Vengeance, the tank you'll probably want would be something like a Damage Control, EANM, and repper or plate in the lows (with a low free for whatever else you need). A DC2 and EANM2 together with the great natural resist profile and built in resist bonus will typically give you all the resists you really need without gimping your fit at all.