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Reverb Target Painter II anyone?

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Dirk Culliford
Zero G Universal Enterprises
#21 - 2012-06-26 20:52:21 UTC
Tenjou Utena wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
This was just a module that accidentally got published. So disclaimer: What you saw in no way, shape or form may be released. That being said, I am not going to stop you guys from discussing target painting mechanics.

If highslot ewar modules are ever implemented, they really should be role limited to Electronic Attack Frigates. Could make EAFs worth piloting and would not make other ships overpowered.


What would be the point in having high slot ewar if it could only be fitted to EAFs. Just give them plenty mid-slots and appropriate fitting so it doesn't get used as an uber shield tank.

disclaimer - This point does not include merits/demerits, the coolness & utility overpowering some ships etc etc of these modules in the first place
Nihi Lismus
A Lone Wolf Inc.
#22 - 2012-06-26 21:11:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nihi Lismus
Illectroculus Defined wrote:
Nihi Lismus wrote:
Have you allready thought about the buff it gives to the Nagl and the Phoenix?

I see Torp-Dread + Hugginn-Fleets eeeeevrywhere


Are you suggesting we target paint structures? In a thread about ccp making mistakes?
Oh the irony of it.....

irony... nope
a goon-grunt, who can't think out of the box without his little daddy mittani... oh yes

You know the second ewar that's getting some benefits from the matari recons? right! webs. You're gonna saying now, that structures are so fast? Or are you going to think one step further?

I'm not gonna tell you, what I was thinking of, just to force you, to use your F1-trimmed brain. Have fun o/

(little hint: with dreads, you can also lock other ships, like Maelstroms or Abbadons)

Helft dem Kleinkünstler!
Fenk
Technodrome Laboratory
#23 - 2012-06-26 23:44:31 UTC
Good artists don't use erasers. Let us play w/the reverb. :0D

X
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-06-27 15:08:08 UTC
When I look at this module I see a few things.

First, the other main split-ewar faction, Amarr, already has highslot/midslot splits to their ewar.

Second, the other two ewar types, ECM and Damps/scramblers, are both most likely in need of some sort of rebalance, perhaps we'll see a similar highslot/midslot split when they get looked at?

Third, this could very well be intended as a counter-module for tracking disrupters finally being able to do something to missile ships (increasing explosion radius). And I'd love for amarr ewar ships to finally have something to do against the ever popular passive tanked missile boat besides hoping they use an invuln.

I just hope my wild speculation is right and we're due for some interesting changes to ewar Smile
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-06-27 20:00:22 UTC
We are definitely in need of some alternative utility high slot modules to neuts.

If this were to be introduced then I think perhaps it should have higher fitting requirements, it would be too easy to just throw this on if you have one spare powergrid.

Mid slot painters should prob still be better.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-28 02:28:54 UTC
I want all target painters moved to high slot, and minmatar to get some other e-war speciality.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Tankn00blicus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-28 19:25:02 UTC
Galphii wrote:
I want all target painters moved to high slot, and minmatar to get some other e-war speciality.
You mean like webs?
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-07-01 00:31:46 UTC
VR Highfive wrote:
Although the idea of a high slot Target painter sounds nice for some ships it would get OP on many others . Thinking of the Drake like Pinkknife did.. and can u imagine a Falcon or Rook fitted with all ECM and painters.. scary.


inb4 highslot ECM whine.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-07-01 21:51:02 UTC
Highslot TPs feel like a way to fix the bad mixed weapon systems for bellicose and its t2 variations. It would make huginns/rapiers very powerful ships for any fleet.
Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
#30 - 2012-07-04 23:35:13 UTC
This thing is for Dust Orbital Bombardment.

-- Please like me, I'm an attention w*ore.
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#31 - 2012-07-05 09:32:22 UTC
Moving target painters to hi-slots would likely:

(PROS)
Create better shield tanks on Golems (Vargurs?) and Ravens
Potentially boost Geddon, Pest, Domi and Mega (depends on how you currently use utility slots)
People might actually fit target painters to Huginn/Rapier

(CONS)
Reduce the damage potential of Typhoon and other armor ships with weapons in all hi-slots and otherwise plenty medslots
Make some ships depend less on support against smaller ships

Anything else I didn't think of?
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#32 - 2012-07-05 12:22:31 UTC
Flat-out moving painters to highslots would be a bad idea. But the option of a highslot painter in addition to normal medslot painters is a good idea, although fitting requirements might need another look.

All too often we get "spare highslot? Fit a neut". Alternatives are good. It's possible that it might make hitting smaller ships too easy, but neuts are already quite effective enough at ruining smaller ships' days, and it's far from clear to me that dropping a neut for a highslot painter would make things worse. In fact, I suspect that a neut would still be generally more effective.

Also, make Nos easier to fit.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-07-06 10:37:21 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Oooo high slot target painter. I like that idea.


honestly, making them and other mods like senor damps and such high slot modules Make them cost 60-80% more to fit, but it frees up a mid slot, it's golden.Targeted EWAR never did make sense in the mid slots. but ti's stuck that way so introduce optional high slot modules.

My hurricane NEEDS some high slot painters, give please ;_;

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-07-07 06:37:48 UTC
I really like the idea of high slot painters because it never made sense to me that a shield boat requiring med slots for both tank and speed mods would also be forced to try and fit a module designed to help with damage output. TP in high slot provides some good options for what type of utility you want.

To balance I think the high slot module should be less efficient than the medium slot version.

I'm not sure other ewar options should also be moved to high slot though as the TP is really a damage mod and not a defensive item like a damp or ECM. Seems to me the counterpart for armor/turret ships would be some kind of tracking module. Maybe have something like a turret stabilizer for high slot that is a tracking computer with less efficiency than the mid slot version. Then you'd have more options for turret ships (to include Caldari versions) and provide more utility overall.

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
Opaque Intent
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-07-10 01:45:14 UTC
Saw this on Failheap, thought it deserved a repost.

Sponk wrote:


I think I can put my finger on why everyone considered the RATPainter a must-have.

It's the range.

Mid-slot e-war has pretty decent range; something like 30+60, with the crucial exception of webs, scrams and points. Those three types are so important that they have their own terms 'web range' 'scram range' etc due to the way they warp the battlefield if you get into range of them. It's also why those ranges are a lot shorter.

But 'normal' e-war range is pretty far out, and is generally used by fairly squishy ships, or more tanky ships that have made the tough choice to give up a mid slot to fit one.

With the RATP, this changes. Suddenly, you see 100% combat ships with full-strength, full-range e-war instead of the very limited range of other high-slot ewar (i.e. neuts and nosses). And it's wrong. It's just overpowered to give up a spare high slot and some CPU and get 30+60 range painters that give the same boost to tracking as a scripted Tracking Computer II without making any sacrifices.

Just nerfing the strength of the RATP won't work. Dropping it to 1/3 strength is still better than giving everyone in your fleet a free Tracking Enhancer as soon as you get a ship within 90km of them that has a lolutility high.

The solution is obvious.

1. Drop the range by 75%. Base range becomes 7.5km optimal + 15km falloff (or 9.4/18.75 with max skills).

This means you are much more in danger from your target (point range) and thus it's OK to fit to a ship of the line, plus it makes it more difficult a decision whether to run with a painter or a neut.

2. Drop the strength by 50%. Base sig radius becomes +15% (+22.5% with skills) which is necessary because there's a lot more spare high slots in a gang than spare mids.

3. CPU probably should be 30 (halfway between the 20tf of a medium neut II and the 40tf of a heavy neut). After all, it's T2.
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