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Thoughts on "PVE Hatred"
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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-06-30 20:26:19 UTC
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
Just to way in on the matter of the heated debate of the “hatred” for PVE players.


There is no PvE hatred, but sometimes we need to remind them that this is a game that revolves around PvP & they're not immune to it just because they happen to play solo & mind their own business. Everyone on the overview is a potential target or threat.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
pussnheels
Viziam
#62 - 2012-06-30 20:37:55 UTC
it has more todo with a new generation of players who have no idea what this game is all about and just copy what the' biggest bully of the class says and does
most of those haters tend to have tunnelvision and can't see or will not see this game isn't about blowing up ships alone it is about competition , in every scale and on all levels

high sec is high sec if you want to kill ships in high sec you pay the price in security standing or declare war if you want unlimited free pvp there are plenty of places where to find it
tho sometimes i have the feeling that some of those haters don't like the idea of losing their ship to another player who is actually better than them and always will be better than them

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Infinitio Krystallos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-06-30 20:43:14 UTC
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
GURANTTED.



This alone makes your thoughts invalid imho.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#64 - 2012-06-30 21:02:53 UTC
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
Just to way in on the matter of the heated debate of the “hatred” for PVE players. If CCP where to intervene and make the game “Safer” for new players or high sec miners, the game with eventually fail and fall apart GURANTTED. Aion –a game by NCsoft pushed the same concept of Open World PVP, and after 1 year, the company listened to people who cried about getting ganked and grified. They took away a big part of the PVP, one year later the game is free to play and is currently dead on it’s feet. These people who complained about getting killed in safe zone have to realize that THIS IS A PVP SANDBOX! Everything and anything goes (to an extent). CCP will protect you from various scrams and other game mechanics that do not fall into there game mold, as it should be, but they should not protect your from mechanics that are part of there game mold. If anything at best warning signs should be post for players to read and understand the consequences of there actions. As someone else in another post said “by pressing undock you are consenting to PVP”. That is the Game and it should stay that way.

CCP you have enough income from new players who understand what they are walking into when buy the game. You do not need the income of players who come from other games (WoW,Aion,SWTOR) who promise them safe player environments. They do not control the sway of the game, just as the PVP grifers do not control the sway either. CCP you started with a concept for a game, and just recently came out and said you wanted to stick to that concept. So the people who can not and will not choose the learn how the game is play, need to be dropped and forgotten. And your need to give your attention to the ones who stay, learn, and adapt.


Ncsoft killed guild wars 1 in only a few years and gw II beta part II had 25% the total players of gw II beta part I.

Secondly, calling Eve a PvP sandbox indicates indicates you have been tooled by bitter vets. If you put the modifier before sandbox, it indicated Eve is a snadbox second and pvp first. Eve is harsh BECAUSE it is a sandbox which allows PvP. If it were a PvP sandbox, there would have to be a reasonable way to obtain better ships through PvP rather than any other means. Saying "Eve is a sandbox in which PvP is integral to the structure", you would be correct.

The other problem with your logic is you assume that the people who get griefed out are always the ones who won't make the learning curve. Lets say for example you read the forums before you ever play the game. You heard it was harsh so you researched it. You could totally 'get' the learning curve of Eve and still be forced to either dock or flee (constantly), which would not produce income, and **** you off enough to not want to "play".
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#65 - 2012-06-30 21:27:43 UTC
The funny thing here is that this discussion has been going on for about 9 years. I wonder what's changed about the fundamental structure of EVE since year one? Oh yeah, nothing. We still have high, low and null sec. People still mine, kill NPC's of various flavours, market trade and kill each other in all three sectors just as they have been for 9 years.

tl;dr It ain't broke, it don't need fixin'.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#66 - 2012-06-30 21:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Xen Solarus
There are these areas in eve...... where you can shoot people freely. Why not go there?

Oh yeah, thats right, those guys actually SHOOT BACK! OMG! WTF!

Why risk that when there is that big high-sec area where they're are loads of defenceless targets! Nice easy kills to make you look awesome on your sad killboard, and nice isk too if you're not a moron.

They actually call this PVP? Its more like PVdP, Player vs Defenceless Player. Why don't they grow some balls and go find a real target, one that shoots back?

EvE should be enjoyable to everyone that plays, PVPers as well as those that have NO INTEREST in PVP. Both sides have their own part of the galaxy to do the things they enjoy, and yet so called "PVPers" still insist on killing those tasty defenceless targets, and collecting all their tasty tears. The rich and diverse potential of eve is far more than people shouting "Its a PVP-only game!". Many people play for many different reasons, and yet PVPers still feel well within their right for force their view of the game onto anyone they can explode.

I personally feel that the reason why so many don't make the natural progression from high to low or null is BECAUSE of gankers. Whats the incentive of increasing your risk-to-reward if high-sec seems just as dangerous. Nice way to harm the game guys.

Personally, i think this issue should be forced, either by making high-sec completely safe (gankers can go and fail at actual PVP in low and null), or by removing Concord (and thus, destroying the very heart of the eve economy).

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#67 - 2012-06-30 21:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Xen Solarus wrote:
There are these areas in eve...... where you can shoot people freely. Why not go there?
You mean like highsec?

Quote:
EvE should be enjoyable to everyone that plays, PVPers as well as those that have NO INTEREST in PVP. Both sides have their own part of the galaxy to do the things they enjoy
Those who have no interest in PvP still live in a free-for-all PvP zone. The galaxy isn't sectioned into different areas meant for different play styles. All of it is everywhere.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-06-30 21:56:38 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
They actually call this PVP? Its more like PVdP, Player vs Defenceless Player. Why don't they grow some balls and go find a real target, one that shoots back?


There's nothing preventing you from shooting back in highsec.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#69 - 2012-06-30 22:50:41 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
There are these areas in eve...... where you can shoot people freely. Why not go there?


These guys think you're talking out of the wrong orifice.

If you think there should be no chance of being shot in high sec at all then you have no clue about this game. Combat is part of the conflict and competition that goes on even in your precious high sec. There is not place that should be completely safe for someone to hide since everybody has some impact on the economy and the resources available and should therefore be subject to the impact that others can have upon them.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#70 - 2012-07-01 00:40:21 UTC
pussnheels wrote:

tho sometimes i have the feeling that some of those haters don't like the idea of losing their ship to another player who is actually better than them and always will be better than them


Define "Better".

"Better" as an individual pilot, or "better" as in calling in backup, using neutral reps, remote boosters, docking games, etc.? Because the latter will always appear to be superior.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#71 - 2012-07-01 00:47:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Simi Kusoni
Regnag Leppod wrote:
pussnheels wrote:

tho sometimes i have the feeling that some of those haters don't like the idea of losing their ship to another player who is actually better than them and always will be better than them


Define "Better".

"Better" as an individual pilot, or "better" as in calling in backup, using neutral reps, remote boosters, docking games, etc.? Because the latter will always appear to be superior.

If player A is smart enough to use the mentioned tactics, and player B isn't (or refuses to use them so he can "honourably" lose his ship), then player A is the better player.

This is not a game about :gudfites:, it is a game about winning.

Also, lol@neutral reps. High sec, the home of eleet pee vee pee.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-07-01 00:51:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryoken McKeon
I don't have a problem with PvE players. I have a problem with people who don't know anything about the game who propose all sorts of nerfs and buffs to things they don't understand.



To some people, the object of this game is to become as powerful within it as possible. As long as you and these people play the same game, and their behavior is allowed and encouraged by the developers, it is you and not them with the problem.

The tools to fight back against gankers are just as open to you as anyone else. If you don't want to be screwed with, become tough enough that people won't bother. This game is sold on being rough, not afk-miner friendly.
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-07-01 00:59:42 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Regnag Leppod wrote:
pussnheels wrote:

tho sometimes i have the feeling that some of those haters don't like the idea of losing their ship to another player who is actually better than them and always will be better than them


Define "Better".

"Better" as an individual pilot, or "better" as in calling in backup, using neutral reps, remote boosters, docking games, etc.? Because the latter will always appear to be superior.

If player A is smart enough to use the mentioned tactics, and player B isn't (or refuses to use them so he can "honourably" lose his ship), then player A is the better player.

This is not a game about :gudfites:, it is a game about winning.

Also, lol@neutral reps. High sec, the home of eleet pee vee pee.


Just because the weak find strength in numbers, it does not make them superior. Being superior/better, and being victorious are independent of each other.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#74 - 2012-07-01 01:15:57 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Regnag Leppod wrote:
pussnheels wrote:

tho sometimes i have the feeling that some of those haters don't like the idea of losing their ship to another player who is actually better than them and always will be better than them


Define "Better".

"Better" as an individual pilot, or "better" as in calling in backup, using neutral reps, remote boosters, docking games, etc.? Because the latter will always appear to be superior.

If player A is smart enough to use the mentioned tactics, and player B isn't (or refuses to use them so he can "honourably" lose his ship), then player A is the better player.

This is not a game about :gudfites:, it is a game about winning.

Also, lol@neutral reps. High sec, the home of eleet pee vee pee.


Just because the weak find strength in numbers, it does not make them superior. Being superior/better, and being victorious are independent of each other.

If you were truly superior, then I'm sure you would have been sensible enough to team up with a few more of your superior buddies so you can win.

The fact that you got your arse handed to you by multiple people changes little, it just means you're too bad to scout, bait or plan ahead.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-07-01 02:12:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
If the propaganda is *convincing* you to do something, so what? Isn't that called "social interaction?"

You're looking for Doublethink...

No one is forcing you!

Everyone is for you!

Quote:
The three slogans of the Party – War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, and Ignorance is Strength


Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
ashley Eoner
#76 - 2012-07-01 02:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
Just to way in on the matter of the heated debate of the “hatred” for PVE players. If CCP where to intervene and make the game “Safer” for new players or high sec miners, the game with eventually fail and fall apart GURANTTED. Aion –a game by NCsoft pushed the same concept of Open World PVP, and after 1 year, the company listened to people who cried about getting ganked and grified. They took away a big part of the PVP, one year later the game is free to play and is currently dead on it’s feet. These people who complained about getting killed in safe zone have to realize that THIS IS A PVP SANDBOX! Everything and anything goes (to an extent). CCP will protect you from various scrams and other game mechanics that do not fall into there game mold, as it should be, but they should not protect your from mechanics that are part of there game mold. If anything at best warning signs should be post for players to read and understand the consequences of there actions. As someone else in another post said “by pressing undock you are consenting to PVP”. That is the Game and it should stay that way.

CCP you have enough income from new players who understand what they are walking into when buy the game. You do not need the income of players who come from other games (WoW,Aion,SWTOR) who promise them safe player environments. They do not control the sway of the game, just as the PVP grifers do not control the sway either. CCP you started with a concept for a game, and just recently came out and said you wanted to stick to that concept. So the people who can not and will not choose the learn how the game is play, need to be dropped and forgotten. And your need to give your attention to the ones who stay, learn, and adapt.
Aion lost the overwhelming majority of subscribers after the first month (millions). People discovered that despite being pretty the game was dominated by Bots(tons) gold spammers and RNG. Skill had little to do with actual fight outcomes because god stones would decide the winner. The factions were so badly balanced that Elyos had a noticeable advantage from the get go and dominated pvp on almost all the servers here and KOrea. The game had already had multiple server merges before they even changed how rifting worked. The developers refused to respond to any of the issues with RNG and bots till it was utterly too late and their responses were also too timid. So to have you declare that it was the rift nerfs that caused the game to fall apart is utterly hilarious. You're basically advocating that CCP not respond to player concerns which is exactly what ncsoft did with Aion and was the driving force in the game's demise.

TLDR AIon was a terrible and badly designed game that was already on it's last legs when they nerfed rift/gank pvp.


There is another game developed by Ncsoft that is called Lineage 2 which came out a little before EVE. That game has open world FFA PVP which allows people to gank others with consequences that are borderline meaningless at high levels. NCsoft refused to respond to player's concerns about the effect on newbies and now Lineage 2 is barely alive supported by cash shops since it went F2P last December.
Tesal
#77 - 2012-07-01 03:04:48 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Regnag Leppod wrote:
pussnheels wrote:

tho sometimes i have the feeling that some of those haters don't like the idea of losing their ship to another player who is actually better than them and always will be better than them


Define "Better".

"Better" as an individual pilot, or "better" as in calling in backup, using neutral reps, remote boosters, docking games, etc.? Because the latter will always appear to be superior.

If player A is smart enough to use the mentioned tactics, and player B isn't (or refuses to use them so he can "honourably" lose his ship), then player A is the better player.

This is not a game about :gudfites:, it is a game about winning.

Also, lol@neutral reps. High sec, the home of eleet pee vee pee.


I rarely undock from Jita. I win every day.
RAP ACTION HERO
#78 - 2012-07-01 03:25:08 UTC
god i hate korean made games, all of it crap.

vitoc erryday
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-07-01 03:51:23 UTC
I find the miner-ganking incredibly amusing. Every time a miner decides to rage-quit or swap professions minerals become slightly more rare. This drives up the cost of everything, including the ships PvPers depend on.

So, obviously, the only reason miner ganking exists is because there are too many miners and PvPers have too much easy money.

If the system is allowed to play out both of those problems will solve themselves. The only question is if CCP will still be in business when that happens.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-07-01 04:03:07 UTC
Pinaculus wrote:
So, obviously, the only reason miner ganking exists is because there are too many miners and PvPers have too much easy money.


Obviously. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with people making themselves an attractive target & it definately has nothing to do with moon goo. Not at all.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.