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Warp core stabilizers and "points"

Author
Kate Stenton
Foundation Enterprises
#1 - 2012-06-30 12:48:56 UTC
Hi, I tried searching but these seem to be pretty common terms and I'm having trouble finding an answer.

I am lead to understand that a "point" is either a web or a scram, and to sufficiently warp scramble someone you need one more point than their ship has, is this correct?

For instance, a ship has 1 point so using a single scram wouldn't actually prevent them from warping? Or do I have this all wrong...
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-06-30 13:00:56 UTC
Warp disruptors have "1 point of jamming" scramblers have "3 points of jamming" whatever you want to call it.

Lets say a ship has "1 point of warp" when you use a disruptor it goes down to 0 = ship cant warp.
When you use a scrambler it goes down to "-2 points of warp" = cant warp.

Warp core stabilizers add "1 point of warp" if I remember correctly, so 1 stabilizer counters 1 disruptor, but you need 3 to counter a scrambler.

This is off the top of my head and Im not quite sure if Im correct since its been abit since I had a look at how this works.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-06-30 14:15:34 UTC
Actually, it's 2 points of disruption for a warp scrambler. Disruptors do 1 point at up to 20 km (24km for a Tech II disruptor), scramblers do 2 points at up to 7.5km (9km for a Tech II). One warp core stabilizer will let you slip away from a disruptor, but you need 2 to escape a scrambler (or from 2 disruptors).

The rule of thumb is: one stabilizer will neutralize one disruptor, two stabilizers will neutralize one scrambler or two disruptors. They're not used in combat because of the penalties - stabilizers reduce your targeting range and scan resolution (targeting speed), and those penalties stack quickly with multiple stabilizers.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-30 14:15:53 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Also to clarify.

A heavy interdictor ship (HIC) can fit Warp Disruption Generator.

This module has 2 uses:

1.) It can deploy a mobile warp bubble. This is (like the stationairy bubble - Mobile Warp Disruptor (Small/Medium/Large)) an area of effect weapon, anything in it's range can't warp.

2.) The module can be loaded with a scripts which makes it a so called "infinite point". This means no matter how much warp core stabs you fit on your ship, you won't be able to warp.

The Warp Disruption Generator however is now allowed to be used in Empire space.

EDIT:

Supercarriers and Titans can't be tackled by normal Disruptors or Scramblers. You NEED a HIC to get tackle on Supers / Titans.

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malaire
#5 - 2012-06-30 14:23:19 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Actually, it's 2 points of disruption for a warp scrambler.

Most scramblers are 2 points, but few faction scramblers are 3 points.

J'Poll wrote:
The Warp Disruption Generator however is now allowed to be used in Empire space.

Is this also true for infinipoint use? I've heard that it could be used in highsec.

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Kate Stenton
Foundation Enterprises
#6 - 2012-06-30 14:30:32 UTC
Thank you all, I think I understand now!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-30 14:33:49 UTC
malaire wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Actually, it's 2 points of disruption for a warp scrambler.

Most scramblers are 2 points, but few faction scramblers are 3 points.

J'Poll wrote:
The Warp Disruption Generator however is now allowed to be used in Empire space.

Is this also true for infinipoint use? I've heard that it could be used in highsec.


Ooh sorry.

The bubble is null-sec only (so option 1).

The infinite point (with script) is allowed everywhere (so option 2).

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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#8 - 2012-06-30 16:05:51 UTC
Also, a warp SCRAMBLER shuts down a microwarpdrive (but not an afterburner), whereas a a warp disruptor does not.

A warp disruptor is also more difficult to fit (more CPU and/or Powergrid), iirc.

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Kate Stenton
Foundation Enterprises
#9 - 2012-07-01 01:48:49 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Also, a warp SCRAMBLER shuts down a microwarpdrive (but not an afterburner), whereas a a warp disruptor does not.

A warp disruptor is also more difficult to fit (more CPU and/or Powergrid), iirc.


Thank you for pointing that out. I believe the tutorial provided a Warp Disruptor and it also said it had a strength of 1. It may have mentioned Warp Scramblers as well but at the time Aura gave me a web and a disruptor so I think I confused myself even more by mixing up the names.

In-game I can see a Disruptor has a strength of 1 (or 2 for officer) and a Scrambler has a strength of 2 (or 3 for faction). The disruptor also has a range of 20km.
DSpite Culhach
#10 - 2012-07-01 05:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DSpite Culhach
After playing eve for a short while, this "webifiers" and "warp scramblers" look to me like a bad kludge to people running away, because if they didn't exist at all, no combat would ever take place with people warping to safety all the time.

Do I think they should be removed? No, but I def would like the concept to be made into a mechanic that actually requires more work by those involved in order to pull of.

If I understand correctly, a single frigate can carry a web and a scram and basically hold a Battleship or even a Titan. That should not be possible.

In a real world scenario with real ships, it is impossible for a ship to just appear right next to another ship, so EVE combat rules can't apply there. EVE needed a way to make fight happen to death a possibilty, and unfortunately, having Warp Drives screws with that. What annoys me is not the concept, just the implementation.

I'm not saying these following idea are good ideas or even a fix, all I'm saying is that they would make more sense either individually or together:

* Small, Medium and Large scrambler for different size ships, each size applies more point of scram ,and larger ship cores are more resistant, meaning it might take 3 frigates to hold a Battleship, maybe even 10 if teh Battleship fits 3 stabilizers. This would mean that a Dreadnaught would need scram pressure from a capital ships to hold it, rather then a single speed tanked frig orbiting at 500m (yes I know it would just get destroyed fast by say, a smartbomb, I'm just saying that it still CAN) It would also mean you cant just keep throwing cheap frig after cheap frig as tacklers, you have to actually plan what to web/scram.

* Change the webbing so that the slowdown from a smaller scram on a larger ship is less efficient. A single frig hitting a battleship should cause only a small change. They move slow already, and doing a base percentage seems wrong. It should take the effect of 4-6+ frigs to cause the same slowing effect on a BS that it does now.

* Speed of movement of the ship casting the web/scram should effect it. As far as I saw, standing still or orbiting at 2000m/s cause the same effect, saying basically that you have a weapon that can hit a target 100% of the time with no range or speed penalty other then the hard cutoff at max range. Even ECM had to be toned down to stop "ECM spam wars" why not this?

I am way too new at this game to actually tell if what i'm saying above actually works/make sense in the current mechanics, or to understand repercussions/exploits/etc, so I'm more then happy to take criticism on the ideas if you are able to point out why in fact they are bad idea, but atm I'm very disappointed on how webs/scram work and it would be nice to get a change.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

Infernal Travesty
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-07-01 06:33:06 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:


If I understand correctly, a single frigate can carry a web and a scram and basically hold a Battleship or even a Titan. That should not be possible.


As mentioned briefly above, a frigate can't scram a Titan. You need a heavy interdiictor for that.


DSpite Culhach wrote:

* Small, Medium and Large scrambler for different size ships, each size applies more point of scram ,and larger ship cores are more resistant, meaning it might take 3 frigates to hold a Battleship, maybe even 10 if teh Battleship fits 3 stabilizers. This would mean that a Dreadnaught would need scram pressure from a capital ships to hold it, rather then a single speed tanked frig orbiting at 500m (yes I know it would just get destroyed fast by say, a smartbomb, I'm just saying that it still CAN) It would also mean you cant just keep throwing cheap frig after cheap frig as tacklers, you have to actually plan what to web/scram.


Although in theory not a terrible idea, the warp scramblers don't affect the engine per se. According to the wiki it affects the ship's computer, basically hacking it to shut down warp ability. In that case even the smallest ships can to the job. Plus, it might put interceptors out of a job :P

DSpite Culhach wrote:

* Change the webbing so that the slowdown from a smaller scram on a larger ship is less efficient. A single frig hitting a battleship should cause only a small change. They move slow already, and doing a base percentage seems wrong. It should take the effect of 4-6+ frigs to cause the same slowing effect on a BS that it does now.


If I remember correctly, Webifiers (not scrams, wrong terminology there) were already changed some time ago to introduce stacking penalties on them. Also, doing a base percentage sounds like exactly what you're looking for. The slower the ship the less speed it takes off. A 2000mps ship can still do 1800 with 10% taken off (arbitrary figures). You're suggesting that a battleship with a webifier could bring a frigate down to its own speed completely negating the chance of outrunning its tracking.

DSpite Culhach wrote:

* Speed of movement of the ship casting the web/scram should effect it. As far as I saw, standing still or orbiting at 2000m/s cause the same effect, saying basically that you have a weapon that can hit a target 100% of the time with no range or speed penalty other then the hard cutoff at max range. Even ECM had to be toned down to stop "ECM spam wars" why not this?


Again, the navigation computer is hacked, speed is irrelevant.

Not really bad ideas, but in my opinion any change to the mechanics would have to be thoroughly thought through considering the consequences for many other systems and tactics.