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The greatest gift to new players
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Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#61 - 2012-06-29 18:02:01 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Hestia Mar wrote:


The OP is talking about bringing new players into the game and then at some stage 'killing them for their own good'! There are surely a limited number of sociopaths/basement dwellers in the world whose reaction to such a course of action would be "OK thanks for the lesson in EVE life" and then keep on playing...the reality is that most would ragequit and probably review their friendship with you.

This is nothing to do with how the sandbox works, this is about you (and the OP) as human beings


You are either 10 years old, or badly need to find new friends. I don't have a single friend that would quit a game because they lost a round. So you and your friend are either 10 years old, or have the maturity of 10 year olds. Also if you beat a friend in a game, they no longer want to be friend with you? Ahhh it's good to be a grown-up, you deal with too much RL drama over a video game.



ROFLMAO
Arkturus McFadden
Anukar
#62 - 2012-06-29 18:26:50 UTC
The greatest gift to new players is inviting them to PVP to let them see how it operates. Then letting them have the freedom to choose what they want to do in the sandbox.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#63 - 2012-06-29 19:00:46 UTC
Anyone who has watched a few Eve videos should understand when they start playing that this is a game where other people are trying to steal or destroy everything you have. If someone can go years in Eve without taking losses while achieve something more than being the best mission runner in their NPC corp, I congratulate them. Survival in Eve is hard, it's supposed to be hard, and we shouldn't hate on people who do it well.

We should hate on those people who want CCP to soften the game up because they fail at survival.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#64 - 2012-06-29 19:44:30 UTC
Best way to help your friend is to tell him there are poorly socialized twats like the op in the game. This and explaining the game mechanics will keep him playing for a long time to come.
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#65 - 2012-06-29 20:51:47 UTC
I notice on the EVE launcher there is an advert for the 'Buddy Program'...for some strange reason it doesn't say invite a friend and then kill them!

Maybe one of you pro-killing experts in marketing might be able to suggest a reason why it doesn't mention the killing bit?

Oh wait...
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-06-29 21:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
sure... squash them now before they get too far along.. I remember 4 of my friends who I convinced to play with me a long time ago. I got lonely in an all male corp and I recruited some of my friends at work to play.. They were fine in the game til some lone pvper blew up everything they had and podded them back to high sec when we were trying to fly the 26 jumps through low sec to get to our null sec home.

Was the pvper helpful? no. Did he offer to help them get where they were going? no.. Did he offer to give them isk to replace the meager items he had stolen? no .. What did he do? He laughed at them in local told them they were "stupid" to be flying in low sec, that they had gotten what they deserved, and that they should "go back to playing wow". They never played again. Even though I tried to explain to them it was a "learning experiance" the damage was done.

Your suggestions are great if you goal is to weed out the non-pvpers from the pvp meta gamers and remove them from the game..

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-06-29 21:27:00 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
AraniFyr wrote:

Dont get caught up in trying to keep obtaining in what you deem as "progress" as nothing in this game is permanet and any progress you get will be destroyed.


Yes that's rather insightful and applies to life in general, not just EVE. Poor health, and my dog, have taught me to enjoy the present rather than worry about the future (there is no future, if you go far enough) or mope about the past. The old saying "live every day as if it was your last" comes to mind.

I hate that saying. If I did that I'd spend every day with tubes shoved down my throat and up my nose, breathing and eating for me.

I very much prefer to live life in the now and prepare for the future, because "live life like it's the last day" is still all about grounding yourself in tomorrow, and always with the idea that it'll never come.

If everyone in EVE was playing for the now and preparing for the future then they'd be ready to lose everything, and be capable of accepting that.

Lots of people play EVE like they'll never have to experience any drastic loss, and when they do they go all apeshit. Kind of like the miner who was finally able to play a hulk, and then gets it blown up in a .8 system and can't replace it. That guy was living like it was his last day, and it **** on him.
Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2012-06-29 22:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarsus Zateki
One of the missions you do if you bother to do the tutorials requires you to lose your ship so you learn about insurance and all that.

You could also provide mentoring and sponsorship for your friend using the Goonswarm patented and tested system. Give him a [insert tier 3 frigate here] and tell him to go have fun. When he loses it, give him another. Keep doing that. Most skill books that newbies would want cost pennies to any seasoned player. Give him every skillbook he would need to keep him busy for the next six months.

Once you eliminate the financial burden of being a newbie, players will begin to experience Eve with the blatant disregard for their own well being needed to flourish in this game. It really works.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.
Digital Mist
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-06-29 23:51:36 UTC
I say, let's not teach new players.

Moving toward educating new players will only hurt the production of tears and I think that would be a shame to do so, and a travesty of EVE's culture.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-06-30 00:05:17 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:
One of the missions you do if you bother to do the tutorials requires you to lose your ship so you learn about insurance and all that.

You could also provide mentoring and sponsorship for your friend using the Goonswarm patented and tested system. Give him a [insert tier 3 frigate here] and tell him to go have fun. When he loses it, give him another. Keep doing that. Most skill books that newbies would want cost pennies to any seasoned player. Give him every skillbook he would need to keep him busy for the next six months.

Once you eliminate the financial burden of being a newbie, players will begin to experience Eve with the blatant disregard for their own well being needed to flourish in this game. It really works.


Ha! Love that disregard for well being...1v1'd a hurricane in my alpha thrasher...best part is, I could have ran...but no I want to see things burn, so I attacked. Went about as well as you would expect...

Guy was nice though and we gf'd each other afterwards...I like that...even though The GF from him was just a curtesy.

James315 for CSM 8!
Pipa Porto
#71 - 2012-06-30 01:29:38 UTC
Styx Cyc wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:




Kristoffer Touborg/CCP Soundwave wrote:
It isn’t really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there’s customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don’t like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. EVE isn’t for everyone. I wish it was, but the reality is that there are some people who just enjoy playing another game more. And that’s not really that bad.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/27/eve-devs-our-game-is-the-mmo-equivalent-of-running-inferno-solo-with-a-naked-barbarian/


Kristoffer Touborg/CCP Soundwave wrote:
I was about to say “Here’s a Rubik’s cube, go f%$^ yourself,” because that’s what we do with EVE Online.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/25/eve-online-devs-on-dayz-elder-scrolls-online-and-whatd-make-them-quit-the-games-industry/

CCP Wrangler wrote:
EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.


That's not really in the spirit of EvE, now is it?


Lol, asking a 4chanSwarmer about eve online is like asking a pedo about pederasty believing he has a valid and sane opinion about it.


I'm confused.

First, I've never heard the term "4chanSwarmer" before, and second, how is the the comparison to a pederast apt?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Joneleth Rein
#72 - 2012-06-30 01:38:28 UTC
It's creepy to read through this post and actually have people trying to validate a sociopathic behaviour.

And there's a huge difference between the dark,harsh unforgiving nature of the Eve universe we all love and going as far as to propose and suggest known (and banned) military and psychological tactics to mold a friendly into your own vision of what they should be or what part they should play in YOUR game.

And enough with the aversion to RL examples. Where do you think you get the ideas for these tactics? Unicorn land?

Scare-tactics, removal of personal-connections through immidiate loss,stalking, cultivation of a sense of false security. Where have we heard of this before? Hmm?

Even the so-much-hated Goons know better.

And a disclaimer.

It works. And it might be valid meta-gaming tactic. But it's downright creepy to see people resulting to such ideas in a GAME. It's a sandbox alright. You can scam,steal,murder and pretty much do all the **** you want in this game. But the moment you start playing with someone's mind out of game to achieve a result (especialy a buddy's). It starts being dangerous.

Spider Pig! Spider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig.
AraniFyr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-06-30 12:56:04 UTC
It's win win for everybody, they learn a valuable lesson and we get to see explosions :D
Xhaiden Ora
Doomheim
#74 - 2012-06-30 13:04:36 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:

You could also provide mentoring and sponsorship for your friend using the Goonswarm patented and tested system. Give him a [insert tier 3 frigate here] and tell him to go have fun. When he loses it, give him another. Keep doing that. Most skill books that newbies would want cost pennies to any seasoned player. Give him every skillbook he would need to keep him busy for the next six months.

Once you eliminate the financial burden of being a newbie, players will begin to experience Eve with the blatant disregard for their own well being needed to flourish in this game. It really works.


I think this is the first time I have agreed with a Goon on the forums.

I....I feel weird. And a bit sticky.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#75 - 2012-06-30 13:32:33 UTC
What new players? I'm getting like 1:30 return from EVE buddy program invitations - people don't want to play this game even with 250m ISK booster bonus.
Xhaiden Ora
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-06-30 13:34:51 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
What new players? I'm getting like 1:30 return from EVE buddy program invitations - people don't want to play this game even with 250m ISK booster bonus.


I've yet to retain even 1 to be bluntly honest. You're doing better than I am. None of my friends will touch the game. -.-
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#77 - 2012-06-30 13:45:01 UTC
Blah Blah blah be mean to people it's good for them Eve is harsh oh yes because it's so cool to be harsh oh yes bad is good and good is bad. More mind numbing repetition of the cold dark harsh mantra. Eve is pretty much just like the other games, but some of us are desperate to pretend otherwise. Manipulating an internet database does not make you tough.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#78 - 2012-06-30 13:45:01 UTC
Joneleth Rein wrote:
It's creepy to read through this post and actually have people trying to validate a sociopathic behaviour.
Teaching people how a game works is “sociopathic” now? Well, that really proves it: the word has lost all meaning and is now just used to mean “something I don't like”. What?

Quote:
And there's a huge difference between the dark,harsh unforgiving nature of the Eve universe we all love and going as far as to propose and suggest known (and banned) military and psychological tactics to mold a friendly into your own vision of what they should be or what part they should play in YOUR game.
Good thing, then, that the OP isn't suggesting anything of the sort…

Quote:
Scare-tactics, removal of personal-connections through immidiate loss,stalking, cultivation of a sense of false security. Where have we heard of this before? Hmm?
You realise, of course, that the OP is rather suggesting the opposite: the removal a the false sense of security; the maintenance of personal connections, in spite of the risks that come with it; the disarming of scare tactics… He's talking about teaching that losses can and will happen, for a number of reasons, and that they shouldn't bother you. Have a proper sense of security and suddenly, the scare tactics just won't work any more.
Joneleth Rein
#79 - 2012-07-01 08:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Joneleth Rein
Tippia wrote:
Joneleth Rein wrote:
It's creepy to read through this post and actually have people trying to validate a sociopathic behaviour.
Teaching people how a game works is “sociopathic” now? Well, that really proves it: the word has lost all meaning and is now just used to mean “something I don't like”. What?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder (I hate having to link wiki). Anyway you are right it's being tossed around like candy like most psychological terms these days. But you'd be wise not to dismiss it just like that. There's a difference in "teaching" and the means you employ to do so which is what i'm going after in my post. Don't put everything in the same box.

Aw and I obviously don't like it otherwise I wouldn't be voicing my opinion against it :P

We can ,if you like , debate whether or not it's sociopathic specially in the EVE context, where lines are pretty thin since it's a game and the majority of us are loonies in-game by these standards anyway :P . I'm just calling *this* one over-the-line even for this. Not asking for a ban, smackdown whatever. But because this is a forum and some people will read this and some people will actually use this. It is an opinion against using this if you wanna teach your buddy(actually anyone) what eve is like. Alternative forms of teaching new players have been given in a myriad other posts.

Tippia wrote:

Joneleth wrote:
Scare-tactics, removal of personal-connections through immidiate loss,stalking, cultivation of a sense of false security. Where have we heard of this before? Hmm?
You realise, of course, that the OP is rather suggesting the opposite: the removal a the false sense of security; the maintenance of personal connections, in spite of the risks that come with it; the disarming of scare tactics… He's talking about teaching that losses can and will happen, for a number of reasons, and that they shouldn't bother you. Have a proper sense of security and suddenly, the scare tactics just won't work any more.



*points to his disclaimer* Perhaps I should have made the *it works * part more clear. I'm not questioning the result of all of this or the reason that calls for this. It does achieve everything you said but it's a baaad teaching technique and personally a dangerous one to use in just a game. And If you wanna nerd it more It's because it essentially breaks down to forced learning vs assisted learning.

Spider Pig! Spider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig.
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise
#80 - 2012-07-01 09:08:24 UTC
Sad thread. Look up "friend", it has nothing to do with shooting them in the back to prove the world is a dangerous place. Mentor, teach, educate will do every bit the same and more than the OP suggested. Shame people think this way..