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Warfare & Tactics

 
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make fire rate relevant
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lovebus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-22 21:51:38 UTC  |  Edited by: lovebus
As the casual observer i see a fundamental problem in the railgun/ artillery relationship. Art seems to be holding all the cards in sniper warfare because of alpha ability. What is CCP's response to this? make a t3 BC that can alpha with railgun. what a ****** solution. make 2 weapon systems that do the same thing? As much as ccp goes on about ships that "barrage" enemies from long range therre doesnt seem like a practical aplication for that.

MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. that way slower firing systems wont see the effects of this mechanic because by the time it fires again the debuff will have expired but faster firing weapons like auto cannons will continue to stack and make a real differance.

through this mechanic we could have railguns providing actual suppressive fire while artillery does the heavy lifting.

debuff suggestions include: very minor speed reduction, cap recharge rate reduction, fire rate reduction, tracking reduction, sensor dampening.

so what do you think. could we make railguns useful without breaking the game?

wrong section go to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124616&find=unread
Eternal Error
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-06-22 22:04:39 UTC
Wrong section. Also, I'm not entirely sure what you're on about, but no.
lovebus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-06-22 22:09:22 UTC
you are right wrong section if i knew how to take this down i would
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-06-23 11:55:35 UTC
Short range, fast fire weapons already have more DPS, longe range, slower fire rate weapons have higher alpha but less damage over time.

Working as intended.

If it truly is such a problem to you, get close, long range weapons cant hit anything thats under 10km and actually moving.
Moonasha
Orcses and Goblinz
#5 - 2012-06-23 16:16:23 UTC
No.
No, no, no, no, no.

While T2 ammo types that have debuffs MIGHT be interesting if implemented correctly (low DPS auto ammo that sapped cap? low DPS ammo with bonus dmg to drones?), what you're suggesting is pretty much a bandaid fix, and a terrible one at that.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2012-06-26 08:53:33 UTC
If I knew what you were suggesting, I would write something other than "Ideas & Suggestions --> thatta way".

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-26 09:04:44 UTC
as a casual observer you are pretty blind.

dont point him to ideas forum as it would be a waste of time there too.

weapons are different, deal with it.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#8 - 2012-06-26 11:17:42 UTC
rails with -50% damage and +50% ROF make rails the long range hi ROF weapon, leave alpha for cowards and the minmatar.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-06-26 11:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
i kinda always had this fantasy regarding laser weapons, that pulses should remain as they are but beams have no rof, rather a constant contact always on effect, slowly and surly ripping down EHP over time rather than a burst like the pulses.

if nothing else would look cool as well as adhering to the different weapons are different para dime. Crazy and probably hard to code, but never the less.... look cool as hell :D

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2012-06-29 12:51:17 UTC
Has nobody else noticed that Rail Rokh fleets are FOTM right now?
eddie valvetino
Bi-Polar Bears
#11 - 2012-06-29 14:46:35 UTC
lovebus wrote:
As the casual observer i see a fundamental problem in the railgun/ artillery relationship. Art seems to be holding all the cards in sniper warfare because of alpha ability. What is CCP's response to this? make a t3 BC that can alpha with railgun. what a ****** solution. make 2 weapon systems that do the same thing? As much as ccp goes on about ships that "barrage" enemies from long range therre doesnt seem like a practical aplication for that.

MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. that way slower firing systems wont see the effects of this mechanic because by the time it fires again the debuff will have expired but faster firing weapons like auto cannons will continue to stack and make a real differance.

through this mechanic we could have railguns providing actual suppressive fire while artillery does the heavy lifting.

debuff suggestions include: very minor speed reduction, cap recharge rate reduction, fire rate reduction, tracking reduction, sensor dampening.

so what do you think. could we make railguns useful without breaking the game?

wrong section go to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124616&find=unread


if you want a translation

"My Skills don't let me use the cool stuff... CCP change everything just for me"
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#12 - 2012-06-29 15:23:07 UTC
lovebus wrote:
As the casual observer i see a fundamental problem in the railgun/ artillery relationship. Art seems to be holding all the cards in sniper warfare because of alpha ability. What is CCP's response to this? make a t3 BC that can alpha with railgun. what a ****** solution. make 2 weapon systems that do the same thing? As much as ccp goes on about ships that "barrage" enemies from long range therre doesnt seem like a practical aplication for that.

MY PROPOSAL: implement a mechanic where something detrimental and stackable will happen everytime somebody is shot with any sort of weapon system but give it a short duration. that way slower firing systems wont see the effects of this mechanic because by the time it fires again the debuff will have expired but faster firing weapons like auto cannons will continue to stack and make a real differance.

through this mechanic we could have railguns providing actual suppressive fire while artillery does the heavy lifting.

debuff suggestions include: very minor speed reduction, cap recharge rate reduction, fire rate reduction, tracking reduction, sensor dampening.

so what do you think. could we make railguns useful without breaking the game?

wrong section go to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=124616&find=unread



ROF already has an intrinsic advantage on deploying a much higher DPS. Compare the DPS of tachyosn vs 1400mm for example. Arties are good on front load, but If your fleet is large enough so that even tachyons alpha are able to insta pop enemy ( and that is not so hard) then the superior ROF of tachyons creates some huge advantage.) Also arties have the WORSE tracking of all guns.


I find amazing how people now say things as alpha is overpowered, because I was one of the main supporters for alpha in the discussion thread that culminated in arti rebalance and most of peopel attacked my arguments saying that alpha was allmost meaningless and that DPS was far far more important.

THat just shows how people consstatly have failed perception of reality and like to overestiamte the effects of the advantages that they THINK they have or that they think the enemy has.
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-06-29 16:06:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Forum Clone 77777
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
rails with -50% damage and +50% ROF make rails the long range hi ROF weapon, leave alpha for cowards and the minmatar.


Obviously didnt think this through.

You realise that would give you the exact same DPS as before right? Except that it now drains your cap way faster.

And if you change the cap usage to balance it out, it will still be making a change thats completely irrelevant and done only "because".

My point is..

STOP POSTING.
Dave Stark
#14 - 2012-06-29 16:20:34 UTC
making the same thread again doesn't stop it being bad.
Janus Varg
Smoke Jaguars
#15 - 2012-06-29 17:38:36 UTC
Suppressing fire against people who are essentially immortal...? mkay then...