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The greatest gift to new players
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Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-06-29 14:13:10 UTC
The best gift you can give a friend is a monocle, so that he too, may troll the forums in style.

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-06-29 14:15:47 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:




Kristoffer Touborg/CCP Soundwave wrote:
It isn’t really hard, but I think there are customers that you can lose in a good way and there’s customers that you can lose in a bad way. If people come in and fundamentally don’t like EVE Online, then I think that might be a good way of losing customers. EVE isn’t for everyone. I wish it was, but the reality is that there are some people who just enjoy playing another game more. And that’s not really that bad.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/27/eve-devs-our-game-is-the-mmo-equivalent-of-running-inferno-solo-with-a-naked-barbarian/


Kristoffer Touborg/CCP Soundwave wrote:
I was about to say “Here’s a Rubik’s cube, go f%$^ yourself,” because that’s what we do with EVE Online.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/25/eve-online-devs-on-dayz-elder-scrolls-online-and-whatd-make-them-quit-the-games-industry/

CCP Wrangler wrote:
EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.


That's not really in the spirit of EvE, now is it?


Lol, asking a 4chanSwarmer about eve online is like asking a pedo about pederasty believing he has a valid and sane opinion about it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#43 - 2012-06-29 14:17:06 UTC
D3F4ULT wrote:
The best gift you could give a friend in eve is by dragging their ass down to null sec. Then they can really learn how to play.


This is so true. I think there is something to be said of NOT letting a player feel protected for too long in a game like this.

I stayed in high sec for my 1st year of eve, training RAVEN and running missions lol. It made it harder and harder to get to my goal of joining a pvp corp, I was actually scared of null sec after getting popped a few times in low sec.

It was Faction Warfare that exposed me to pvp (before than, all i had done was go on a few roams with my corpmate who had friends in BoB), and as i got used to killing and dying and learning to fit properly, I realized that there was really nothing to fear in null sec, you just have to pay attention.

Other real life friends of mine who play went almost straight to null sec, sometimes in an "academy" or renter corp, but in one case straight to a well known sov-holding alliance, none of them suffered the same fears that I did. They learned up front that life in null is pretty easy once you know what to do.

Jumping straight in is what I SHOULD have done, and it's what I encourage people who come to eve to do. Sure, it can be a little painful, but the risk mitigation skills you learn in null is way more beneficial to a player long term than the risk aversion you learn in high sec.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#44 - 2012-06-29 14:18:21 UTC
Teaching a player that they are not their ship, that their ship is just a tool to be used, is probably the best thing you can do for a new player.

How you go about doing that is up to you.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#45 - 2012-06-29 14:25:41 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Let's face it, if we were all about helping noobs, the obvious way to go about it would be to help create an environment and atmosphere that noobs find enjoyable to play in. There are a number of posts in this thread that speak in the language of "helping noobs", while seeming to be more about perpetuating certain attitudes and playstyles that the writers prefer. Let's at least be honest about what we're really writing about.


Oh, you mean the attitude that the Devs share?

[quote=CCP Wrangler]EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.


No, what you posted isn't really related to what I was saying. I'm not talking about the atmosphere of the world the game is set in, which is what Wrangler is on about there. Sometimes people are a little too quick to pull out the "HTFU this isn't hello kitty online" card.


How can you be to quick to pull out the "reality" card? The reality is, HTFU or GB2WOW.

And i really hate when people say "play style", as if that means anything. EVE is an interconnected game, if people's "play style" is "to be left alone to play as I want", the maneuvers they should use to guarantee they can do those things are called "Log Off" and "uninstall".

Yesterday I logged in for the 8th day in a row to find a cloaky neutral in my upgraded ratting system. He is preventing me from enjoying my "playstyle" which is to undock battleships and kill loads of rats introducing millions upon millions of brand new iskies into the game every 20 minutes. CCP should end cloaky camping so as to affirm the validity of my "playstyle, despite the fact that I could just, you know, go somewhere else and rat. But then I'd have to click buttons and jump through gates, surely the EULA must state somewhere that no effort must be given on my part.........

(Sorry if your sarcasm meter just exploded)
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-06-29 14:30:25 UTC
Hestia Mar wrote:
Abel Merkabah wrote:
Hestia Mar wrote:
If I was showing a friend how to play chess, I'd start by showing them how to take my King, and defend theirs, not simply use my x-years worth of experience to get rid of their main piece (and I think you mean take their Queen actually).

If a friend was in a different corp, and there's a wardec in place, well, that's different. But that's not what the OP was talking about.


Let me make it clear though - I don't want any changes to the EVE sandbox approach.


Most people really only get better by playing for real against people who are better then them in my experience. After a basic lesson on piece movement, I'd not want someone to hold my hand; let me learn through experience and observation, not hand holding.

To relate to Eve, the tutorial is you instruction on basic movements from above. After that, better start playing for real, and if I have a more skilled friend to go against me for real, all the better.

IMO its all this ***** protectionism in life these days that is going to make us weak; and is one of the causes of the common inflated sense of entitlement (from the peoe who are always sheltered).

/rant


I get where you are coming from (to continue Tippia's chess analogy) about the tutorials being training in the basic moves, but your argument falls down because in EVE, after tutorials, you may find yourself up against Deep Blue or Kasparov (or Garmon in EVE's case)! How does that help exactly?


It helps learn through experience and observation. You can observe the actions your opponent makes and learn from that. Losing is still great experience (As OP is pointing out). If you don't learn to lose and recover, sooner rather then later, the consequences of not understanding that will only be greater when it does finally happen. The fact you can run into a deep blue or Kasparov right out of the gates should be a valuable lesson to learn, no where is safe. After reading the forums here for a while, that is a concept some people still fail to grasp. Having a friend act as that deep blue or Kasparov is even better, because they can teach you the lesson, and explain it at the same time. That is my opinion.

On another note, as for friends treating each other bad in game; that does not make them a-holes to each other in real life. Hell in FPS, it is common amongst friends to screw around and TK each other for the lulz. To me that whole argument of people like us being sociopaths in RL just indicates one cannot separate the fantasy of the game from reality. So who has mental health problems now?

James315 for CSM 8!
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-06-29 14:38:03 UTC
AraniFyr wrote:
Is to kill them.


What makes eve beautiful? It is a cold, harsh, dark place.


You know that's exactly why I've never been to fan fest. I basically don't like Cold, Harsh, & Dark. Not knocking the country in the least. But why would I want to visit a place where a volcano can spew, and I get stuck for weeks because of airline grounding and such.

Consider this:

How about a warm, (tropical), hot, anything goes fun place! Like Thailand. Oh it's dangerous, and I'm certain there are those that want to kill you, but it's well worth the risk, it is that much fun, Dangerous, and intriguing.

So if the game reflects reality, where would you want to be.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#48 - 2012-06-29 14:40:59 UTC
Best gift? A salvo of anti-matter.

The Tears Must Flow
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-06-29 14:43:30 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Best gift? A salvo of anti-matter.


Republic phased plasma...

Po-Tay-toes, po-tah-toes...

Lol

James315 for CSM 8!
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-06-29 14:46:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Let's face it, if we were all about helping noobs, the obvious way to go about it would be to help create an environment and atmosphere that noobs find enjoyable to play in. There are a number of posts in this thread that speak in the language of "helping noobs", while seeming to be more about perpetuating certain attitudes and playstyles that the writers prefer. Let's at least be honest about what we're really writing about.


Oh, you mean the attitude that the Devs share?

[quote=CCP Wrangler]EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.


No, what you posted isn't really related to what I was saying. I'm not talking about the atmosphere of the world the game is set in, which is what Wrangler is on about there. Sometimes people are a little too quick to pull out the "HTFU this isn't hello kitty online" card.


How can you be to quick to pull out the "reality" card? The reality is, HTFU or GB2WOW.

And i really hate when people say "play style", as if that means anything. EVE is an interconnected game, if people's "play style" is "to be left alone to play as I want", the maneuvers they should use to guarantee they can do those things are called "Log Off" and "uninstall".

Yesterday I logged in for the 8th day in a row to find a cloaky neutral in my upgraded ratting system. He is preventing me from enjoying my "playstyle" which is to undock battleships and kill loads of rats introducing millions upon millions of brand new iskies into the game every 20 minutes. CCP should end cloaky camping so as to affirm the validity of my "playstyle, despite the fact that I could just, you know, go somewhere else and rat. But then I'd have to click buttons and jump through gates, surely the EULA must state somewhere that no effort must be given on my part.........

(Sorry if your sarcasm meter just exploded)


The sarcasm meter is fine. The what-the-****-did-that-have-to-do-with-what-I-wrote meter is going haywire, though.
Price Check Aisle3
#51 - 2012-06-29 14:46:12 UTC
All these people comparing EVE to actual real life, lmao.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2012-06-29 16:20:24 UTC
Hestia Mar wrote:


The OP is talking about bringing new players into the game and then at some stage 'killing them for their own good'! There are surely a limited number of sociopaths/basement dwellers in the world whose reaction to such a course of action would be "OK thanks for the lesson in EVE life" and then keep on playing...the reality is that most would ragequit and probably review their friendship with you.

This is nothing to do with how the sandbox works, this is about you (and the OP) as human beings


You are either 10 years old, or badly need to find new friends. I don't have a single friend that would quit a game because they lost a round. So you and your friend are either 10 years old, or have the maturity of 10 year olds. Also if you beat a friend in a game, they no longer want to be friend with you? Ahhh it's good to be a grown-up, you deal with too much RL drama over a video game.
Nav illus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-06-29 16:23:06 UTC
Best gift for a noob?
A Rifter, directions to lowsec, instructions to lose the aforementioned rifter in lowsec, and the promise of a nifty reward of some sort if they can manage to end up on the winning side of a km while they're at it.

Works every time.
hyhn
Iynx Teledyne Armory
The Chogo Ri Commonwealth
#54 - 2012-06-29 17:07:57 UTC
I have to respectfully disagree.

When I came to eve I found a rich rewarding game where good sense paid off and smart game play trumped isk or SP. For the longest time pilots have been trying to convince everyone -- especially new pilot that this is not the case. I am happy to say that of the 2 friends that I have invited to the game both are more addicted to New Eden's life style than even I am. They are not griefers , gankers , and both have been successful enough that losses ( the kind that most ppl would consider catastrophic) do not phase them or cause thoughts of ragequit.

When I meet new pilots I do all in my power to instill in them the values of smart game play: keep your guard up, make every moment that you play profitable and enjoyable, log out as soon as it stops being fun. I don't have to scam them , kill them, or engage in any other stupid shenanigans. I would wager that most people joining the game know already that there are bad , dishonest , stupid people out there. My game is to build something in New Eden inspite of that. Other people have managed to build lasting stuff -- why can't you?

You are certianly welcome to play eve anyway you want but I really don't see how you can test the entire game space by engaging in a self limiting play style that tears aways at the idea of cooperative game play. There are enemies at the gate -- how do you plan to beat them if you have enemies inside the gate ?

oh yeah -- i'm a fanboi / bittervet of Eve Online

h-
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2012-06-29 17:19:40 UTC
Best thing to do with a nub is throw them into a frigate with a MWD and a warp disruptor and take them out with your fleets as light tackle. Its so cheap its almost free, stuff gets tackled and they have a blast.
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2012-06-29 17:29:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Best thing to do with a nub is throw them into a frigate with a MWD and a warp disruptor and take them out with your fleets as light tackle. Its so cheap its almost free, stuff gets tackled and they have a blast.


Pretty much this, then blow them up?

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#57 - 2012-06-29 17:44:24 UTC
Rath Kelbore wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Best thing to do with a nub is throw them into a frigate with a MWD and a warp disruptor and take them out with your fleets as light tackle. Its so cheap its almost free, stuff gets tackled and they have a blast.


Pretty much this, then blow them up?


good job tackling! *pew pew*
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#58 - 2012-06-29 17:54:58 UTC
Ignoring all the internet psychologists and focusing on the OP.

I would say that this is very important, with a slight add on.

After destroying their stuff, since you are their friend, you should buy them the stuff back, and then explain why you did it (the blowing up).

EVE is like this. A person will almost assuredly die at some point, and it is better to learn how to deal with it early on rather than after they get their first faction BS.

Then go on to explain that not everyone in EVE wants to get your stuff, just most of them. And then go on to teach them survival methods.


Hmm, tempted to start up a school for newbies. Teach them the basics and the harsh realities of EVE (without being as harsh as I could). Idea time...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2012-06-29 17:59:42 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Rath Kelbore wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Best thing to do with a nub is throw them into a frigate with a MWD and a warp disruptor and take them out with your fleets as light tackle. Its so cheap its almost free, stuff gets tackled and they have a blast.


Pretty much this, then blow them up?


Hell, you keep them. Grab a nub less than a week old and 9 out of 10 times that nub will become a great asset to the corp. They will blow up enough trying to get tackles on titans.
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#60 - 2012-06-29 18:00:22 UTC
Personally i believe best gift to give a noob would be information. CCP knows damn well if player stick game longer then 3 months, hes playing this game for years to come.

Idiots that think that killing noob is gift, are really gifting only themselfs. And even then they dont realise theyre actually giving themselfs bad gift. More people there are playing this game, means more targets to shoot for everyone. So does kiling that day old noob encourage him to stay and keep playing? I think its not. He feels overpowered by someone in shiny ship and usually he dosent even know what he did that give you chance to shoot him.

Too many people skip all those tutorials and asume this is as easy game to play as WoW or something similar. When you think for it moment, EvE has totally different game mechanics. And tons of it..

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...