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Make Tech 1 Cruisers and Battlecruisers unable to fit heavy tank for balancing
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Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#21 - 2012-06-28 04:06:57 UTC
Hey I'm gonna add my terrible idea considering this is apparently the terrible ideas thread


Remove extenders from the game, buff shield boosters
Remove armour repairers from the game, buff plates

Now you can either be fast with lots of damage and a great tank if you can avoid the big hits
Or you can be slow with less damage, lots of tackle, and a mountain of HP

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Rip Marley
MANPENIS
#22 - 2012-06-28 04:25:18 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Okay I reread what you said. So no LSE and 1600 plates on cruisers either. You realize cruisers will get raped by frigates? They already do but it will be worse.



Tech 2 frigates maybe, I've never had a T1 frigate challenge my Rupture.
Alara IonStorm
#23 - 2012-06-28 05:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Dracan02 wrote:

you seem to forget that armor has more resists then shields do. tho shields recharge you need a rather specific fit for it to mean anything. and the speed drop from armor is'nt a good argument when shields have increased sig.
the reppers is were the issue is with armour and shields but as ccp is currently re balancing the classes this may change.

Speed is 5 times more valuable then sig in most situations. Those extra resists make up for the extra damage shield has.

Dibblerette wrote:

Remove ALL the variety!

But seriously, this is not the solution to the cruiser/BC problem. Not even a little bit.

It is a big part of it. Most Cruisers are slower and less agile then the Hurricane in Armor fit. Most of them have to fit Plates.

The rest is base stats.

As for removing all variety that is plain out silly. Plates would still nerf mass, Shield would still have more damage and armor more mid slot EWAR. Lets face facts, the crapiness off 800mm Plates makes them less then used. There are almost no serious setups that use 800mm plates anymore because they give poor HP.

This is one area of so called "variety" that should go the way of the Dodo.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#24 - 2012-06-28 05:20:40 UTC
Just reduce PG on Minmatar ships by 15-20%, problem solved.

.
Alara IonStorm
#25 - 2012-06-28 05:22:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Roime wrote:
Just reduce PG on Minmatar ships by 15-20%, problem solved.


Has the unintended side effect of killing medium and small Artillery.

Medium Artillery along with Heavy Missiles are the two medium range weapons that work well so them going would be pretty sad.
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-28 18:12:41 UTC
Yes, this troll post.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#27 - 2012-06-28 18:38:34 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
Tech 1 Cruisers and Battlecruisers should get a limitation that does not allow them to fit to 1600mm plates (perhaps also 800mm) and Large Shield Extenders.


Hard limitations are bad, mmkay?

Personally, I believe adding a bit more drawback to fitting BS-sized tanks on cruiser/BC class ships would be enough. Something flying around with LSEs should have a signature close to that of a BS, and a cruiser or BC fitting 1600mm plating should be noticably slower than one that fits cruiser-class armor.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-06-28 18:48:55 UTC
This guy has the worst ideas...
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#29 - 2012-06-28 18:56:13 UTC
Zyress wrote:
This guy has the worst ideas...


Agree, completely ********.

However, he did get two pages out of it so I'd give him a 2/10 for the troll.
Veryez
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
#30 - 2012-06-28 19:01:06 UTC
Ashera Yune wrote:
Tech 1 Cruisers and Battlecruisers should get a limitation that does not allow them to fit to 1600mm plates (perhaps also 800mm) and Large Shield Extenders.

Allow faction and Tech2/3 variants however to fit 1600mm (and maybe 800mm) and Large Shield Extenders.

With this you will kill two birds with one stone.

Battlecruisers are no longer as close to a Battleship capable tank and obsolete many faction and higher tech ships.

The Large Shield extenders and 1600mm fits have become almost mandatory/standard on many ship fits. Removing these from the tech 1 line will allow better variety.

This is also be the beginning of fixing fitting issues for many cruisers and battlecruisers. Thorax will be more onpar to the Rupture as the Thorax is able to get equal tank and fix its strongest guns like the rupture can.

Cruisers will begin to be better in certain situations than battlecruisers. It will become more akin to frigate and destroyer relationship rather than frigate and cruiser relationship.

Battleships will have their roles and abilities less stepped upon by Battlecruisers as Battlecruisers no longer can get tank close to Battleships can. Battleships will gain a clear advantage in staying power over battlecruisers, rather than a small amount.


Again proving that being killed by a ship does not make you an expert on it.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-06-28 19:02:47 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Okay I reread what you said. So no LSE and 1600 plates on cruisers either. You realize cruisers will get raped by frigates? They already do but it will be worse.


The EHP jump in between ship types is awkward and if you take a close look at it it's easy to understand:

Frigates can fit for 10k+ EHP -->cruisers 35/40K, it's a woopin 300%
Battle cruisers 50 to 80k EHP, Cruiser vs Battle Cruiser gives an average 100% EHP difference
Then you pick Battleships with an average 100K ehp, BC vs BS average differenvce 25%.


If something, it's frigates EHP that is far too high (witch it actually) or BS too low (witch is also true), cruiser could use of some EHP boost but BC surely not, they're already omnipresent and have far too much EHP

brb
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#32 - 2012-06-28 19:07:28 UTC
Could just solve all this mess by swapping all turrets and missile launchers for snowball launchers and silly-string dispensers. Also, this idea? Not good. Just because ship A can do what ship B cannot does not mean make ship A and B the same. Then you lose out on all the fun of variety and things. So what if I need a certain gun-size to fit 1600's on my Thorax, that's the choice I make when I build that ship up to fight.

Also, just because a BC has the EHP that it does and can fit Large/1600's, does not mean it's on par with a BS. Let's not forget gun-size, even the new BS-gun-toting BCs only do so at the expense of tank.

Rebalance is needed, yes. But not equality.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-06-28 19:49:02 UTC
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Just because ship A can do what ship B cannot does not mean make ship A and B the same. Then you lose out on all the fun of variety and things.

Rebalance is needed, yes. But not equality.



So you mean its working as intended that winmatar lives up to its name now and forever ?

So booring.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-06-28 20:54:19 UTC
Wut?!!?!?

My only comment would be, "Take a step back from the bong, sir."
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#35 - 2012-06-28 21:29:56 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
Just because ship A can do what ship B cannot does not mean make ship A and B the same. Then you lose out on all the fun of variety and things.

Rebalance is needed, yes. But not equality.



So you mean its working as intended that winmatar lives up to its name now and forever ?

So booring.


I mean

Quote:
Rebalance is needed, yes. But not equality.
Ashera Yune
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-06-28 22:48:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashera Yune
The fact remains that the Drake and the Hurricane are the top 2 most used ships in the game. They are used far more than other ships. They are simply too good and need to re-balanced to allow other ships to shine.

Removing the ability to fit 1600mm and Large Shield Extenders is the beginning of that.

Battlecruisers obsolete HAC's. Removing their ability to fit 1600mm while allowing HAC's to fit 1600's will shift gameplay and bring more variety to the game.

Those who disagree do not wish to see their ships nerfed, but the fact remains that these ships are too good for the cost and skills points needed.

"Yesterday we obeyed kings and bent our necks before emperors. But today we kneel only to truth."

 Kahlil Gibran
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#37 - 2012-06-28 23:56:15 UTC
Making something worse does not make something else better. If you want battleships to be better the solution is to make battleships better, not cruisers and battlecruisers worse.
Boomhaur
#38 - 2012-06-29 01:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Boomhaur
Jita Prices Alt wrote:
Somebody shoot the troll dead, please.


Don't think we need to a sneeze will do according them them they probably aren't fitting LSE or 1600mm plates Roll

Their pod on the other hand may be tougher to crack.

Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-06-29 02:06:01 UTC
They need to be brought in Line, yes, but your proposal is the Wrong way to do it.
Ashera Yune wrote:
Battlecruisers obsolete HAC's. Removing their ability to fit 1600mm while allowing HAC's to fit 1600's will shift gameplay and bring more variety to the game.

This will shift gameplay, yes, but it wont bring more variety. It will actually kill a fair bit of variety.

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Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-06-29 02:56:05 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Personally, I believe adding a bit more drawback to fitting BS-sized tanks on cruiser/BC class ships would be enough.


They already do.