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CCP, are you really, really sure you didn't break the loot tables?
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Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-28 17:41:56 UTC
Market stats are so borked, it beyond belief. Some items have retained their value, Arbalest Heavies for example, while others have crashed in epic proportions. You did say no loot table changes were made with the T1 removal, but ever since then you have to admit that something is different with named mods.
Charles Baker
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-06-28 17:45:39 UTC
I don't think the loot-tables themselves have been altered, just player behaviour in reaction to the removal of T1 items from the tables.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3 - 2012-06-28 17:46:06 UTC
Yabba Addict wrote:
Market stats are so borked, it beyond belief. Some items have retained their value, Arbalest Heavies for example, while others have crashed in epic proportions. You did say no loot table changes were made with the T1 removal, but ever since then you have to admit that something is different with named mods.

Sounds like a rumor to me...

Some items may have been propped up by their T1's refine value, but who knows, is that is gone, no one produces the T1 and the meta ones aren't being used, then they'll drop...

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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-06-28 17:48:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Yabba Addict wrote:
Market stats are so borked, it beyond belief. Some items have retained their value, Arbalest Heavies for example, while others have crashed in epic proportions. You did say no loot table changes were made with the T1 removal, but ever since then you have to admit that something is different with named mods.

Sounds like a rumor to me...

Some items may have been propped up by their T1's refine value, but who knows, is that is gone, no one produces the T1 and the meta ones aren't being used, then they'll drop...



Meta 4 drop was increased thus making some items price go down the hill.

Op just learned a lesson about trading.

brb
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-06-28 18:04:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Yabba Addict wrote:
Market stats are so borked, it beyond belief. Some items have retained their value, Arbalest Heavies for example, while others have crashed in epic proportions. You did say no loot table changes were made with the T1 removal, but ever since then you have to admit that something is different with named mods.

Sounds like a rumor to me...

Some items may have been propped up by their T1's refine value, but who knows, is that is gone, no one produces the T1 and the meta ones aren't being used, then they'll drop...



Meta 4 drop was increased thus making some items price go down the hill.

Op just learned a lesson about trading.


Can you post a link for that, i can't seem to find one anywhere. I can however post this saying that loot tables were left unchanged, and all T1 was replaced by metal scraps. In addition, named has very little ore content so it cannot be that propping up certain meta 4's over others. And if it was a change in behavior, then why some and not others?

Before the patch the internal force field array was a pretty expensive piece of kit. If anyone asked why, they would be told supply and demand. Now from what i can see, either demand has dropped right off for some strange reason, or supply has increased.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-06-28 18:12:18 UTC
Yabba Addict wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Yabba Addict wrote:
Market stats are so borked, it beyond belief. Some items have retained their value, Arbalest Heavies for example, while others have crashed in epic proportions. You did say no loot table changes were made with the T1 removal, but ever since then you have to admit that something is different with named mods.

Sounds like a rumor to me...

Some items may have been propped up by their T1's refine value, but who knows, is that is gone, no one produces the T1 and the meta ones aren't being used, then they'll drop...



Meta 4 drop was increased thus making some items price go down the hill.

Op just learned a lesson about trading.


Can you post a link for that, i can't seem to find one anywhere. I can however post this saying that loot tables were left unchanged, and all T1 was replaced by metal scraps. In addition, named has very little ore content so it cannot be that propping up certain meta 4's over others. And if it was a change in behavior, then why some and not others?



Because it was pretty obvious when they announced drone poo taken away+drop on loot replaced by scrap metal and increase on meta 4 rate drop, prices would go down the hill.

If you ever brought Arbalest launchers and some other valuable meta 4 items before the release you just lost in between 30 to 50% of your investment. You did a bad move, that happens when you trade, just hold your stock and wait prices to move up.

brb
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-28 18:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Yabba Addict
Again, where does it say increase on meta 4 loot?

PS, I don't trade, just wondering
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#8 - 2012-06-28 18:19:15 UTC
Is there a way to manufacture meta 4?

"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"
Mme Pinkerton
#9 - 2012-06-28 18:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Mme Pinkerton
Shameless Avenger wrote:
Is there a way to manufacture meta 4?

no, there isn't.

edit: to be exact - there are a few meta items that can be manufactured, e.g. the meta2 capital modules, but the vast majority of meta 1-4 items is only available through loot drops.

An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#10 - 2012-06-28 18:39:58 UTC
[quote=Lin-Young Borovskova

Because it was pretty obvious when they announced drone poo taken away+drop on loot replaced by scrap metal and increase on meta 4 rate drop, prices would go down the hill.

If you ever brought Arbalest launchers and some other valuable meta 4 items before the release you just lost in between 30 to 50% of your investment. You did a bad move, that happens when you trade, just hold your stock and wait prices to move up.[/quote]

I don't trade. I mission occasionally.
And guess what. There is zero doubt that I am getting way, way more meta 4 drops than before.
And before you say RNG, I have a hangarful of meta 4 target painters, when prior to the latest release, I scraped up like 6 in 3 years of missioning. That is just one example.

The beauty of large numbers and statistics is that eventually, when a large enough sample size is built, the result is such an extreme outlier in a binomial distribution that the answer, "you are just lucky, or just unlucky", is no longer relevant.
Ayn Randy
Home For Pugs
#11 - 2012-06-28 18:42:34 UTC
Erm, those launchers used to be 13mil plus...

Added to the fact that with the drop increase, a lot more people would consider buying them as they are cheaper, hence a higher demand, hence a higher price.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-06-28 18:44:55 UTC
Ayn Randy wrote:
Erm, those launchers used to be 13mil plus...

Added to the fact that with the drop increase, a lot more people would consider buying them as they are cheaper, hence a higher demand, hence a higher price.



I'm watching average meta 4 price go down, not the other way around. (witch is normal since more offer)

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-06-28 18:47:46 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


Because it was pretty obvious when they announced drone poo taken away+drop on loot replaced by scrap metal and increase on meta 4 rate drop, prices would go down the hill.

If you ever brought Arbalest launchers and some other valuable meta 4 items before the release you just lost in between 30 to 50% of your investment. You did a bad move, that happens when you trade, just hold your stock and wait prices to move up.


I don't trade. I mission occasionally.
And guess what. There is zero doubt that I am getting way, way more meta 4 drops than before.
And before you say RNG, I have a hangarful of meta 4 target painters, when prior to the latest release, I scraped up like 6 in 3 years of missioning. That is just one example.

The beauty of large numbers and statistics is that eventually, when a large enough sample size is built, the result is such an extreme outlier in a binomial distribution that the answer, "you are just lucky, or just unlucky", is no longer relevant.



425mm Prototype were around 6 to 7 mill 2 months ago, they're around 4+ now, Arbalest Heavy launchers were around 15M about 2 months ago, they're more around 12/10 depends on where you go you can get then cheaper.
Meta 4 target painters were usually around 8M + (some times up to 12), you can have them now under 5mill

brb
Knight Cabbage
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-06-28 18:51:25 UTC
Perhaps it's also the effect of a number of miners moving from mining to pve missions for isk.
The isk/risk ratio of high sec mining isn't that good anymore.
Nyreanya
Serenity Labs
#15 - 2012-06-28 18:51:43 UTC
There's also the fact that many people stopped running incursions, and went back to mission-running. So even if the loot tables hadn't changed, supply of named items would have risen.

[/sarcasm]
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-06-28 19:01:41 UTC
As far as CCP has said to my knowledge, there were no increases in meta 4 or otherwise, it was supposed to stay exactly the same apart from T1 which changed to scraps and only scraps. The incursion theory doesn't hold up because those same items were expensive before incursions even existed. I can't see a few miners making massive differences either. And if you think the arbelest hasn't retained value, look at the internal force field array, it was over 20 mil and is now 3. So either they changed it while saying they weren't, or they broke something.
Phill Esteen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-28 19:02:02 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Meta 4 target painters were usually around 8M + (some times up to 12), you can have them now under 500k

FTFY

Dinsdale!

– postum faex est – 

never forget
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#18 - 2012-06-28 19:19:26 UTC
The nice new Unified Inventory with price estimates had nothing to do with the increased supply of highly valued meta poo, lolololol.

Nyan
Yabba Addict
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-06-28 19:40:14 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
The nice new Unified Inventory with price estimates had nothing to do with the increased supply of highly valued meta poo, lolololol.


Look at how long ago the prices crashed then come back, look at what you typed and hit edit
Ayn Randy
Home For Pugs
#20 - 2012-06-28 20:26:30 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Ayn Randy wrote:
Erm, those launchers used to be 13mil plus...

Added to the fact that with the drop increase, a lot more people would consider buying them as they are cheaper, hence a higher demand, hence a higher price.



I'm watching average meta 4 price go down, not the other way around. (witch is normal since more offer)


Yes but as this is a very popular item, the price wont drop dramatically from over 13mil to 1mil...
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