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Tips on making a healthy and successful industrial corp

Anna Killalot
#1 - 2012-06-26 23:40:38 UTC
I have been around in mostly pvp focused corps and not actually been apart of an sucssful indy corp. but id like to make an corp that specialize in production. I want it to be a corp with more than one person. it should be bsed on every one contribuiting in one way or another. Primary goal for corp is to be able to build up from scratch. aquiering blueprings and making the isk on a corp level without basing it on donations from people in corp. it should also be rewarding for people to do stuff for the corp.

How would you build it up?

How would you organize it?

etc etc

Serenity Labs
#2 - 2012-06-27 01:05:02 UTC
My biased, unexact advice, from years of being in these corps, and months of running some:

  • Incentives are better than punishment: encourage people to participate, but don't penalize apathy.
  • Unless you're really lucky, you'll end up doing 80% of the work yourself. Accept this now or risk anger/burn out later.
  • Background checks. Hulk/freighter kills are juicy.
  • Rigs/ammo are good starting places for corp production: offer to buy salvage/minerals from corp members. Make it simple and profitable, otherwise they'll gravitate to market orders.
  • Offer free services like haulling, refining, other stuff to attract members.
  • Once you grow, offer positions like "hauler" and "builder", where members are paid for their time. Make it clear what's expected from them, and what their incentives are.
  • A POS is a good goal, but problematic to put up once you have other members with standings. Either make an alt research corp, or get people to drop and comeback after it's up. Make sure it's worthwhile before persuing.
  • Be active. Plan ops, get people chatting/mining/missioning together. Yes, missioners are good even in indy corps, as they help fill the corp wallet. Incursion runners are even better.
  • As much as possible, make corp assets available for members' proffit. Lock BPOs and open access to them, let people borrow mining barges when theirs gets blown up, etc. This gains you good will, which becomes loyalty.
  • Listen to suggestions. Even the bad ones, of which there will be some. Do experiments. No one minds a failed experiment if you were upfront at the begining of it.
  • Have a couple directors, but keep a majority of your shares. Log on every day to make sure they don't pull any funny votes.
  • Give members opportunites to invest in the corp, with a repayment.

Some of that may be more relevant than others. Sorry, had fun, got carried away.


Teyr Malleis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-06-27 01:51:06 UTC
Nyreanya wrote:
My biased, unexact advice, from years of being in these corps, and months of running some:

  • Incentives are better than punishment: encourage people to participate, but don't penalize apathy.
  • Unless you're really lucky, you'll end up doing 80% of the work yourself. Accept this now or risk anger/burn out later.

Nyreanya covered all the important points, but I'd agree strongly with the ones above. As the CEO of any corp you have to expect to be doing most of the work to make the corp money. What this means is that you will lose money on a personal level.

Make the decision beforehand as to whether you think that is good time/isk spent or not.

Also - recruiting for an industry/mining/mission running corp makes you a target, expect that and have plans for it, as you say you've been in PVP corps so will likely be able to respond in a productive way to those threats, just make sure your members know what you plan to do if such an event occurs.
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
#4 - 2012-06-27 05:19:07 UTC
Lock down everything.

Accept the fact that industry is better done with alts than other people, and any corp industry effort is going to be primarily a socialization outlet for a bunch of likeminded people doing their own work.

If you want to be financially successful - don't fall down the "Charity for the incompetent/underskilled" route that most other corps do to recruit newbs. If you want to just be big, then by all means do some type of profit sharing roleplay.

I also add to the above, rather than "Keep a majority of your shares" - keep them all. There is no reason shares need to be in anyone else's hands. They're a poor mechanic, and once they're out of your hands they're gone forever.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-06-27 06:41:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Styth spiting
You gotta have op's. PVP focused corps have their roams, gangs, incursions, wars, etc. This is where most of the socialization comes from in many corps, so if you want activity you need to get people together. Mining ops are dull as the process of mining is for some is also the most social aspect of an indy corp. Its also going to be how most of your new players will be making most of their isk. Running 3 or more ops a week would be best IMO. You'll also need at least one max/near max orca booster to make it worth their time.

Things that would draw me to an indy corp would be.

  1. Ore/mineral buying and selling program
  2. Hauling services (both offered and paid to haul).
  3. BPC's (so you don't need to hand out bpo's) for cheap.
  4. Cheap researched bpo's should be available at some price, but not insane jita prices.
  5. A message board where guides, research, spreadsheets, etc are available.
  6. As well as the message board researched and tested information on what and how members can or should be doing to increasing profits (best PI setups to do, optimal skill training for specific skill focues, invention, etc).
  7. Lowsec/wh/null access for mining, PI, etc.
  8. POCO's setup with 5% export 0% import tax.
  9. Avability to setup a POS. Your ability to not properly setup/secure a POS shouldn't affect a players need for one.
  10. Members who actually want to work together to handle large projects, market manipulation, research, etc.
  11. In an alliance that has the capabilities to deal with wardecs. Wars kill off non-alt indy corps, and being connected with a group of pvp players helps.
Victoria Sin
#6 - 2012-06-27 07:25:20 UTC
You really need a null sec base as well in order to keep them interested. Industry characters love ABC :).
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
#7 - 2012-06-27 08:20:30 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
You really need a null sec base as well in order to keep them interested. Industry characters love ABC :).

This statement equates industry with miners. Which it shouldn't. They're separate professions that are attracted by separate activities. That many people happen to do both is more due to the overlap of the things that attract them, or (sadly more often) a misunderstanding in how to value materials used.
Victoria Sin
#8 - 2012-06-27 11:02:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Sin
Abditus Cularius wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
You really need a null sec base as well in order to keep them interested. Industry characters love ABC :).

This statement equates industry with miners. Which it shouldn't. They're separate professions that are attracted by separate activities. That many people happen to do both is more due to the overlap of the things that attract them, or (sadly more often) a misunderstanding in how to value materials used.

Not really, it's simply a fact that an industry character needs something to do when he's not waiting for xyz to complete and that's usually mining. If he's got a combat alt, a nullsec base is good for the alt as well as it's a way of earning/having fun away from the tedium of spreadsheets, hauling and waiting...
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#9 - 2012-06-27 13:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
Organized corp events, such as mining ops. Even if you aren't specifically a mining specialized corp, doing weekly events as a group will help everyone work as a team and not feel like random strangers that happen to share a corp channel.

Offer your corp members opportunities, not gifts or punishments. An intrinsically motivated corp member will be much happier doing their job than someone who has to be bribed to do it, or threatened to do it. Don't tell a corp member he/she HAS to train skill X, merely point out the benefits that having skill X would have and leave them to decide what to train. If they decide to train it, they'll be happier for having made that decision themselves. If they decide against training that skill, they probably wouldn't have enjoyed doing the activity related to that skill anyway.

Be fair and transparent. If you charge your corp members for things (like a corp tax) give them an idea of where that ISK goes. You'll inspire a great deal more loyalty if they know they can trust you.

Be consistent in your enforcement of corporation rules and make those rules clear to your members.

Set goals, both short term and long. Solicit feedback and opinions from your corp members. Even if you, the CEO, reserve the right to make the final decision, treating your corp members like a panel of advisers is not a bad thing. Not only will they feel more invested in the corporation for having voiced their of they may actually bring up a superior alternative to your original plan that you simply didn't think of.

Once you reach 10 members, make use of the official corporation forums that CCP provides and encourage your corp members to post there, or just setup one yourself. A corp forum is a good place for longer, more detailed discussions.

Google Docs is your friend, especially for mining ops.

Make sure your corporation has a theme or a goal to it. Corporations who say they do everything, tend to do nothing. By focusing on a few specific industrial tasks (Mining, manufacturing ammo, PI, region trading etc) you can not only organize the efforts of your corp members, you can recruit higher quality pilots who are more likely to be interested in the specific activities your corp is involved in.

Always keep in mind that an industrial player could do their job almost as effectively solo as they could as a member of your corp. If you want to retain corp members, offer them opportunities and/or an enjoyable social environment that they couldn't have if they were flying solo. If you charge your corp members a corporate tax, make sure they feel membership in your corp is worth it.

In regards to spies, either limit information and access to your corp members to where a spy in your ranks wouldn't be able to get any real useful information or do damage to your corporate assets... or be super paranoid and do full background checks on your members. If you recruit brand new players, you are more prone to spies, so acting in the first manner may be encouraged unless you personally know the recruit.

If you DO recruit new players, make sure you and your senior corp members are open, friendly and quick with advice and guidance. While brand new players won't be instantly useful right out of the gate, they can become some of your most loyal and active members once they get some baseline skills up.

If you recruit combat pilots into your corp for protection purposes, make sure you have things to keep them occupied and entertained when they aren't needed for corporate activities. Some are open to getting a few industrial skill points and joining your corp for economic activities. Others will refuse outright.

Always interview prospective members. Even if you want to have an open and loose recruitment policy, having that initial 1 on 1 conversation with a potential new member can give you a good feel on the nature of the pilot. During the interview, ask the pilot if they have any questions about your corporation. Ironically, you will learn more about a recruit by the nature of the questions they ask you than you will from the answers to questions you ask them.

If you operate in an area frequently, learn who the locals are. If you hop onto grid with a person you see all the time in local, a stray "o/" never hurts.

Make sure you have a plan to handle war decs and that your corp members know how the corp will respond to one. It will make it less likely for your corp members to scatter to the 4 winds in the event that you are declared on.

I hope this helps!

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#10 - 2012-06-27 16:12:42 UTC
Learn to control roles, have an alt in the corp that you can practise setting roles up for access to make sure you can keep what you need under control.

Patience, there are hundreds of small industry corps out there, don't expect a flood of members straight away.

Get the members involved in setting goals, instead of saying "By the end of 6 months we'll own xxx number of BPO's, be Mining in nullsec and yada yada", ask for input, and see what is suggested.

Location Location Location, somewhere that is suitable for all is impossible, but you don't want people to have to travel dozens of jumps to a well used Level 4 agent for example.

Decide NOW if you want to have a pos, if you've got the standing to anchor one then get it anchored, if not, then consider using one of the high standing corp services on the sell forum. They don't cost a lot, and once it's anchored, then barring any wardecs you should be ok, they're invaluable for research purposes. Once you start letting people in through the door, the chances of getting standing up again is pretty bleak :)

Don't forget it's a game not a job, it will take a lot of time setting up and running a corp, vetting recruits, making sure that things are running smoothly, it's ok for some, and not ok for others, and can lead to eve-burnout where you find yourself just logging in for corp stuff and not enjoying the game anymore.

Fox Mc'Cloud
Wixo Trading Co.
#11 - 2012-06-28 06:57:25 UTC
The single most important thing is to have goals. In pvp its to get into 0.0 or to be successful pirates or have great kb stats or become widley known for being leet etc.

Industry is not so easy....The obvious goal is for everyone to become rich but the problem is that this is far easier solo than trying to work on a group project.

There arnt really any industry jobs that allow for group effort, let alone any that benifit from it - the only thing that comes close is cap ship production - mining the minerals and making the components in house - but the miners get less isk thant hey would selling in jita and the profit from the cap sales is hardly enough compensation for 1 person - dividing it up turns it into nothing :/

The best thing would be for everyone to do their own thing but work toward improving corp assets/facilities that everyone can use for their own profit such as expensive bpos and pos labs etc.

Problem with THAT is how does everyone contribute? vouluntary contributions might bring in a bit soon after you ask for them but after a while will not be regular as ppl forget/decide they cant afford any more etc.

A required set fee or tax every month will be hated and you wont have any memebers
A required % feee every month will be impossible to enforce accuratly.

So since you cant keep a corp going with production, every "industrial" corp is essentially a mining/missioning corp with maybe a few perks like labs thrown in for personal use (funded by mining and missioning).

So you need to get and keep them? first just do one a week at the weekend to ensure the maximum possible show up - once you have alot of members run several ops through the week at various times. If you hate mining like me then get someone else to run them but keep a close eye to make sure they are running them and dont just give up after a while.
First CityWide Change Bank
#12 - 2012-06-28 16:23:17 UTC
Unfortunately, CCP has been very reluctant to develop the industry side of EVE to accomodate working as a corporation, rather than a bunch of individuals using the same name.

1.) While you may lock BPOs, you have to completely grant access to all the products that are used to build with BPOs.

2.) You must rely on members to follow protocols for which hangars are inputs and outputs.

3.) There are corp contracts, but no such thing as a corp market. A corp market would allow buy / sell orders specifically for corp members. This would make mining ops a breeze and allow for a trading corp to be run without pressure on its members to contact someone (the CEO) to be reimbursed for a smart buy.

4.) There is no way to set up automated payments for running production / research jobs aside from some terribly convoluted contracts which take far too long to create and are not easily repeatable.

5.) There is no way to have a member sell an item for the corp without allowing them to steal the item.

6.) You cannot setup PI to be split up through corp members.

That doesn't cover anything to do with POS either, not to mention the million click papercuts of prod/research, and all that was off the top of my head.

Honestly, I think the reason most of these aren't implemented is that corp thefts are some of the biggest news breakers for the game.
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
#13 - 2012-06-29 05:00:42 UTC
100% agree with Teavan. While corp roles lack any granularity, and while Industry exists in its current form, it's always easier, more profitible, and more sensible to do it as a collection of individuals than as a corporate effort. Most industry corps are actually mining corps, social clubs, or roleplay.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-06-29 08:47:09 UTC
It's really sad how right Teavan is. It seems impossible to get POS rights in most corps which leaves the only option to create an alt corp for setting up a POS which naturally gets wardeced because of the small number of members (which are naturally alts and can't help defend).

I have become convinced that the only reason people start indy corps these days is to have a high enough member count to discourage a wardec so you can setup your own POS(s) and MAYBE letting people use slots.

Being in a situation where I'll be setting up 2 POS's for my own personal use really leaves very few options. Start an alt corp, create an indy corp to leech off members, or try to find people in the same situation and work with them.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-06-29 20:43:31 UTC
Fox Mc'Cloud wrote:
The single most important thing is to have goals.

This is it.

You want long term and short term goals that need to be constantly revisited and talked over with your corp player base. One of the best way to get people involved in an mining op is to have a stated reason for the op. We're helping "Harry" get his freighter built in this op.. We need (list materials) and set start and stop hour goals. Invite all to attend but do not punish those who can't make it. Long term goals will be more general and can be as simple as, "find a new alliance to join"... or find a "home in null sec." Remember that larger goals like these will probably need to be attacked by making smaller goals - or milestones to hit on the way to those goals. Post your goals where they can be seen by everyone.

Basically you want to get people involved... this means you will need to be involved and motivated even when it seems no one around you is. If you can get some good excited motivating lieutenants early on you will have an easier time keeping people.

Player retention is important but isn't going to completely save you corp alone. You will need to recruit.. people come and go some times leaving the game for good some times just taking time off and coming back. If you aren't growing you are shirking.

As a lead you will have to do things that will sap nearly all your free play time.. like communication with your leadership, addressing player drama, helping corp mates who are in a pinch, or recruiting.

Success doesn't just happen .. you have to get out and push easpecially at first.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -


#16 - 2012-07-01 01:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: D3F4ULT
Its easy.

Be fresh. Its what we do. Friend and I are CEOs, we play TO play. Not run a job. We play Battlefield 3, Diablo 3, Dota 2, etc with all of our corp mates and make sure to not call them Corpmates but friends.

This is the answer to all your questions you'll ever have about running a successful corp (:

Add on top of the fact that my friend and I own 3 accounts each with Hulks, 2 Orcas, a Charon freighter, and a Rorqual, also setup with an Alliance with nice Industry space. We're pretty healthy corp and an inviting home for new indy players.

"Bow down before the one you serve, you're going to get what you deserve"

Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-04 11:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: P3po
Yea, we tried it several times, but running something as pure corp projects is really hard. Its hard to determine who does what etc. Its hard to share the profit, its hard to manage it.

So we dropped it and we are now changed into joint ventures of few people from corp. We talk abot it, we find something we could manufacture/react/whatever and than we calculate how much ISK we gonna need. And than we ask members who wanna go into it. ITs usually 2-4 people involved in different projects.

Me as CEO iam trying to help all of them, and iam involved in few of them myself. This is probably the easiest way i found out ... which can be actually controlled and managed.

But yea, the main reason is probably that we are primary mining corp, with doing industrial as part-time job to increase profits and doing something else for a change .... because you cant be miner forever :)
Jelizza Arlath
Darkfall Helix
#18 - 2012-07-04 13:41:54 UTC
This is a very interesting thread as I've often considered joining an industrial corporation, but I never saw any benefit to doing so as long as I'm only concentrating on industry.

Being in an NPC corp, obviously noone can wardec which means mining as well as transportation of products is always as safe as it can get, bar suicide ganks.

Between having a character that does the mining, refining and building... and one that does the hauling and trading... as well as a friend that sometimes joins in to reap the benefit of my mining leadership skills... what does a corp actually provide?

As someone said, most of the stuff involving industry is easier done with alts than other players... such as hauling your own ore, products and minerals, as well as setting up buy/sell orders and installing jobs at the stations.

I can understand the benefit if you are in null where logistics is a much more pressing concern, and where you might need several members to dig out minerals in order to be self-sufficient on ammo, modules and other stuff without needing a life-line to highsec. But then you are most likely only a part of a larger corporation that doesn't have industry as the main goal, but rather as a necessary supportive side.

So what does the game really offer to anyone interested in industry as far as team oriented gameplay goes? Not much from what I can tell and from how I understand most of the replies in this thread. Having another player instead of your alt hauling ore you mined from belt to station just means one more mouth to feed, which effectively means cutting your profits in half. Not very economical if you can avoid it. Same goes for anything else industry related.

The only benefits you might gain from an industry corp as far as I can see would be access to using researched blueprints you can't afford or otherwise have access to yourself (at least not without incurring alot of investment in either ISK, time or both) as well as the possible option of having open research slots available in a POS.

You don't need other players to help you mine.
You don't need other players to help you haul.
You don't need other players to help you build.
You don't need other players to help you research.

You may need other players to help defend you in a wardec (which isn't a factor if your industry characters are in an NPC corp anyways) or if you poke around in null and lowsec (in which case your corp is most likely not industry-focused in the first place).

Maybe I am missing some major benefit in all of this. If I am then please correct or flame me for it.

As I said, I really want to see a purpose and a benefit of joining a player corporation that is industry-focused since I really enjoy teamplay (which is a major reason why I even play MMO's) but I'm not going to sign up for something just to do it. Being industry focused means the overall goal is making ISK, and signing up for a player corp with the risks that bring along (such as corp theft, wardecs and so on) means I'd be expecting a potential increase in profits as well. If I wanted to have my potential profits reduced I might as well join a pirate corp where spending ISK on new ships and modules is a more frequent occurance than building them to make a profit.

Dex Nederland
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
The Fourth District
#19 - 2012-07-04 18:18:58 UTC
Jelizza Arlath wrote:
The only benefits you might gain from an industry corp as far as I can see would be access to using researched blueprints you can't afford or otherwise have access to yourself (at least not without incurring alot of investment in either ISK, time or both) as well as the possible option of having open research slots available in a POS.

So start there. An industrial corporation can provide a Blueprint Library for its members to Copy from at Starbase Lab Research Slots. (Setup a Lab Access Wallet & Research Hangar for anyone to use to access the labs)

Beyond the Copy slots, you can provide ME/TE slots for members to either research their own BPOs or use a Research slot to help develop the BPO Library (in the latter case make it free to do). You can even make the Invention slots free (every bit helps right).

Choose a final moon product (like Fullerides or Phenolic Composites) and the starbase can cover its fuel cost and create isk flow to provide for more blueprints.

A corporation can also bring different perspective and deconflict products. An expert in one area of industry can lend advice to someone just starting out. Larger complex products (say T2 ships or Capitals) can have multiple people feeding into the larger production effort, reducing the amount of time (could be done with alts).

Alts allow us as a player to coordinate industry in our brains, on our own. This however means that we are also limited by the time we get to play. Having a few other players around to help take care of the task spreads out the common workloads and should help everyone be more efficient.

Yes the tools CCP has provided us suck. But there are still reasons to develop industrial corporations.
Jelizza Arlath
Darkfall Helix
#20 - 2012-07-04 18:48:02 UTC
I'm not one to start a corp though (I was just chipping in on the thread) as I really don't have enough playtime to be available as frequently as most would expect a CEO to be. But I would be interested in joining a corp, if there were some benefits to it other than just socializing.

That said, I'm not expecting to join a corp and have everyone supply isk, time, effort and supplies at my whim. I know the door swings both ways and you should give at least as much to a teameffort such as a corporation (or guilds for that matter in other MMO's) as you hope to get back.

But I just don't see what the game can offer in terms of team-effort industry. At the end of the day everyone is hoping to obtain some profit, but every new player you add to the production chains, whether it's mining, hauling, researching and so on is slicing down your own profits. The way the industry works in the game it's pretty much designed to be a solo (with alts) endeavour if you want to have profits.

Sure you can have mining ops, but what are people doing with the ore? It's either piled up because the corp is producing guns, ammo and hulls in null... or people chat and hang out while mining, stack up the ore and minerals in their personal hangars then go ahead selling or building their own things. Where is the benefit of being in a team then? Fleet bonuses? Your own alts can sit off-grid and give you that.

Industry is alot like the mission system in EVE. There is no point bringing another person along since the time saved by killing faster is eaten up by the profits being split in half. And you can manage the missions solo anyways, so why bother with the extra hassle?

And not to derail the topic, but sure... people claim that group content happens in low. Well, if you are going to low you bring a ship worth less, with weaker modules and you spend alot of time warping to safespots or docking up when local fills up. So the extra profits and increased rewards are effectively negated by the extra hassle to the point that you make just as much in high... where you can do everything solo anyways and don't need a team effort.

It all bounces back to one thing...

What is there to gain when the mechanics in the game itself cater to the solo / alt'ing playstyle?

Sorry if I seem overly negative towards the teamplay and corporation side of the game; thats not my intent since I really do enjoy the sense of accomplishment when achieving something as a team... but in EVE it's difficult to find the incentive to team up unless you are really involved with PvP and such.

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