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Dreads.. so what use are they now ?
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Twisted Girl
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-06-27 17:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Twisted Girl
Baneken wrote:
Twisted Girl wrote:


its a lot of things that wrong in this thread but Im just gonna point out a few.

first off all supers got twice the dmg of a carrier if they had all their fighter drones. (which is like 2500 dps in a nyx)
however real combat fitted supers WILL NEVER have 20 fighters, nyxes and hels will have 15 , aeons and wyverns gonna have 10) They want to have 20 fighterbomber and then its only room for 15-10 fighters.
This means that Aeons and Wyverns do exactly the same dps as their "non supercap" siberlings, 1k dps (archon and chimera) agains subcaps. Nyx which does the most does 1920dps with its 15 fighters.
That is if target is webbed/got huge enough sig to be hit full force. Fighters tracks a little worse than heavy drones in my experince.

FBs is totaly useless again subcaps btw.


3 per lvl = 15 + 5 = 20 = 10 000 dps from a max skilled Nyx; FB's used to hit full on any subcapital.
As far as fighters/drones are concerned a Nyx or any other mom can have twice as much fighters out as any carrier.

Now that FB's have guns instead of missiles along with a host of other nerfs they are a lot less deadly on sub capitals then they used to.
Also 5 min siege timer and other improvements have made dreads a whole lot better (especially the removal of tracking bonus while sieged) and I can't complain about 5min triage on carriers either.

Fb havent really hurt subcaps since the first nerf it got few mothns after they was introduced in 2010. In the beginning I could 2 volly a drake or BS. then they nerfed it so it did more or less heavy drone dmg on support. Now after that they changed it from the drone model firing torps til firing a fake gun(that accually fires a kinda missile but with much higher explosive radius(2250m) So nowadays your lucky if you hit a battleship for 75dps each 20 seconds(with 20 drones thats like 75dps).
so you cant really count the fb dps agains anything else than capitals. agains anything else its the mentioned dps above.
Rip Marley
MANPENIS
#42 - 2012-06-27 21:51:58 UTC
Apolyon I wrote:
Rip Marley wrote:
So, dreads are better than they were but still not as useful as a carrier for anything other than a POS bash?

Also, is it just me or are the Revelation and Moros just all around better than the Pheonix and Naglfar? The Revelation and Moros can do the same jobs as the Pheonix and Naglfar, but are able to blast sub caps much more effectively if circumstances permit.

I ask because I've always wanted to find a reason to buy a Naglfar but dreads in general didn't seem worth the time to train or the Isk to buy.

the problem with citadel missile is its crappy explosive radius, while rev and moros can blast the sh*t out of BS and with enough web/TP, subcap too. citadel missile can't, the only thing it can hit is anything bigger than a carrier.

otherwise, capital projectile works fine



I am not asking about capital projectile, I am asking about the ship that fits it. Man, if only the Naglfar fit 3 turrets like the Amarr and Gallente dreads.


Are the recent changes enough to make training a dread worthwhile?
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#43 - 2012-06-28 08:36:31 UTC
Rip Marley wrote:
Apolyon I wrote:
Rip Marley wrote:
So, dreads are better than they were but still not as useful as a carrier for anything other than a POS bash?

Also, is it just me or are the Revelation and Moros just all around better than the Pheonix and Naglfar? The Revelation and Moros can do the same jobs as the Pheonix and Naglfar, but are able to blast sub caps much more effectively if circumstances permit.

I ask because I've always wanted to find a reason to buy a Naglfar but dreads in general didn't seem worth the time to train or the Isk to buy.

the problem with citadel missile is its crappy explosive radius, while rev and moros can blast the sh*t out of BS and with enough web/TP, subcap too. citadel missile can't, the only thing it can hit is anything bigger than a carrier.

otherwise, capital projectile works fine



I am not asking about capital projectile, I am asking about the ship that fits it. Man, if only the Naglfar fit 3 turrets like the Amarr and Gallente dreads.


Are the recent changes enough to make training a dread worthwhile?

when we talk about dread, what else would we talk about but its weapon system???
Rip Marley
MANPENIS
#44 - 2012-06-28 09:29:08 UTC
Apolyon I wrote:

when we talk about dread, what else would we talk about but its weapon system???




I wasn't asking about capital projectiles per sey, the question was about the fact the the Naglfar can only fit 2 turrets and has to deal with fitting two capital launchers. Does this make a Naglfar decisively worse as a dread than the Revelation and Moros. I've always looked at a Naglfar as a ship I'd want just based on appearance but it never seemed practical to spend the time training for it.

The pure turret boats seem a lot more versatile. They seem to be able to bash a POS at least as well as a Pheonix AND can also hammer subcaps under the right circumstances. I have not flown a dread and I was wondering if my conclusions were correct.

That is assuming that a dread was worth training for in general, and if so, how does a Naglfar in general match up against the others.
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#45 - 2012-06-28 09:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Apolyon I
Rip Marley wrote:
Apolyon I wrote:

when we talk about dread, what else would we talk about but its weapon system???




I wasn't asking about capital projectiles per sey, the question was about the fact the the Naglfar can only fit 2 turrets and has to deal with fitting two capital launchers. Does this make a Naglfar decisively worse as a dread than the Revelation and Moros. I've always looked at a Naglfar as a ship I'd want just based on appearance but it never seemed practical to spend the time training for it.

The pure turret boats seem a lot more versatile. They seem to be able to bash a POS at least as well as a Pheonix AND can also hammer subcaps under the right circumstances. I have not flown a dread and I was wondering if my conclusions were correct.

That is assuming that a dread was worth training for in general, and if so, how does a Naglfar in general match up against the others.

in my previous post, I think I make it very clear.

citadel missile is sh*t, rev and moros are boss, projectile is so so, can't you figure it out??

EDIT: moros = rev > nag > phoenix
4-AcO-DMT
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-06-28 14:42:06 UTC
so whats the best dreadnought for this purpose ? killing other caps, battleships etc.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-06-28 15:06:45 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:
Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.

Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread.



Since when?

A typical carrier can "easily" tank 90K shots from Moros with support fleet? -excuse me if I have some hard time believing you.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFahR4wXTg

Here's a pair of Archons tanking 2 Dreads and 4 Supers. How's that for a support fleet.


NIce, already knew that vid. However this is not the typical carrier and tactic or player, those dudes are really good.
Don't you know the story about Canes fleet eating carriers? - of course you do Blink

Whatever, in the end is still a nice ship to move stuff around Cool

brb
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