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CFC needs Pandemic and others to win

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Signal11th
#101 - 2012-06-28 08:00:12 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
and 30:1 numerical disadvantage


That argument is moot, as the NC. / PL / Evoke / Raiden / etc blob that attempted to take deklein outnumbered our fleets and still lost handily.



lol, Can you tell me the colour of the sky on your planet???


I think I can remember only two battles in which we outnumbered you which we then won, after you lost a tengu fleet or two you started bringing 700+ plus fleets daily which with NC starting to suckle on the teet of Martini's breast and losing interest it started to be no point in fighting.

I wouldn't mind but you even have well known members of GSF saying they just wanted to steam roller Tenal and had no interest in getting fights.

You have to believe you're going to win because if you don't you're screwed.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#102 - 2012-06-28 08:04:52 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
and 30:1 numerical disadvantage


That argument is moot, as the NC. / PL / Evoke / Raiden / etc blob that attempted to take deklein outnumbered our fleets and still lost handily.



lol, Can you tell me the colour of the sky on your planet???


I think I can remember only two battles in which we outnumbered you which we then won, after you lost a tengu fleet or two you started bringing 700+ plus fleets daily which with NC starting to suckle on the teet of Martini's breast and losing interest it started to be no point in fighting.

I wouldn't mind but you even have well known members of GSF saying they just wanted to steam roller Tenal and had no interest in getting fights.

You have to believe you're going to win because if you don't you're screwed.


you're so bitter its cute.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#103 - 2012-06-28 08:05:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Mrr Woodcock wrote:
Listen my bed time. Not gonna say. But I will say were not heading to Delve. Me and my little band, are heading to Deklin. Were gonna terrorize some Gooney Bears.


So you're afraid of the actual fight.

Gotcha.


"Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào" Cool


Only works when you pose an actual threat.

Mmmm, jump clones are so sexy!
Signal11th
#104 - 2012-06-28 08:07:16 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
and 30:1 numerical disadvantage


That argument is moot, as the NC. / PL / Evoke / Raiden / etc blob that attempted to take deklein outnumbered our fleets and still lost handily.



lol, Can you tell me the colour of the sky on your planet???


I think I can remember only two battles in which we outnumbered you which we then won, after you lost a tengu fleet or two you started bringing 700+ plus fleets daily which with NC starting to suckle on the teet of Martini's breast and losing interest it started to be no point in fighting.

I wouldn't mind but you even have well known members of GSF saying they just wanted to steam roller Tenal and had no interest in getting fights.

You have to believe you're going to win because if you don't you're screwed.


you're so bitter its cute.



just pointing out some errors in your ramblings. No bitterness it's a game after all.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#105 - 2012-06-28 08:09:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Yolanta Geezenstack
Pipa Porto wrote:
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
"Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào" Cool


Only works if Wei can't defend itself from you at the same time it stomps Zhao.


As I understand the strategy you have to find something that the overwhelming attacker a) considers important but b) can't defend itself. If you attack someting that can defend itself (or isn't considered important), it's not "Wei".

If course, if there is no such thing, you are screwed. Roll
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#106 - 2012-06-28 08:15:54 UTC
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
"Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào" Cool


Only works if Wei can't defend itself from you at the same time it stomps Zhao.


As I understand the strategy you have to find something that the overwhelming attacker a) considers important but b) can't defend itself. If you attack someting that can defend itself (or isn't considered important), it's not "Wei".

If course, if there is no such thing, you are screwed. Roll


ancient ground warfare strategy does not apply to EVE.

all a "distraction strike" does is remove your expeditionary force from the fights that matter.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2012-06-28 08:21:41 UTC
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:


"Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào" Cool

Someone tell that Sun Tzu dude about cyno chains...

.
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-06-28 08:26:18 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:


"Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào" Cool

Someone tell that Sun Tzu dude about cyno chains...

But I thought power projection was a non-issue in this game...
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#109 - 2012-06-28 08:26:40 UTC
I guess The Mittani has taught you speds well. Major null wars are won on the forums and not in space.
Pipa Porto
#110 - 2012-06-28 08:28:30 UTC
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
"Besiege Wèi to rescue Zhào" Cool


Only works if Wei can't defend itself from you at the same time it stomps Zhao.


As I understand the strategy you have to find something that the overwhelming attacker a) considers important but b) can't defend itself. If you attack someting that can defend itself (or isn't considered important), it's not "Wei".

If course, if there is no such thing, you are screwed. Roll


You're also screwed if that thing is easily within reach of the attacker's current army as a defense of opportunity, so to speak

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#111 - 2012-06-28 08:34:57 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
You're also screwed if that thing is easily within reach of the attacker's current army as a defense of opportunity, so to speak


True, but then it wasn't "Wei" - "Wei" can't be easily defended by definition. But as said, if there is no such thing that can't be easily defended you won't be able to apply this strategy.

Akirei Scytale wrote:
ancient ground warfare strategy does not apply to EVE.
all a "distraction strike" does is remove your expeditionary force from the fights that matter.


Limiting this strategy to "ancient ground warfare" only might be a bit too short. There are chess players and rl business persons that apply those strategies, why not in a SF MMO game? You just have to cross the borders, don't think in terms of "ancient ground warfare".
Pipa Porto
#112 - 2012-06-28 08:37:23 UTC
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You're also screwed if that thing is easily within reach of the attacker's current army as a defense of opportunity, so to speak


True, but then it wasn't "Wei" - "Wei" can't be easily defended by definition. But as said, if there is no such thing that can't be easily defended you won't be able to apply this strategy.


Fair point all around.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#113 - 2012-06-28 08:38:52 UTC
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You're also screwed if that thing is easily within reach of the attacker's current army as a defense of opportunity, so to speak


True, but then it wasn't "Wei" - "Wei" can't be easily defended by definition. But as said, if there is no such thing that can't be easily defended you won't be able to apply this strategy.

Akirei Scytale wrote:
ancient ground warfare strategy does not apply to EVE.
all a "distraction strike" does is remove your expeditionary force from the fights that matter.


Limiting this strategy to "ancient ground warfare" only might be a bit too short. There are chess players and rl business persons that apply those strategies, why not in a SF MMO game? You just have to cross the borders, don't think in terms of "ancient ground warfare".



They don't apply to pretty much any sort of modern warfare, in this era of mechanized troops, cruise missiles, aircraft, ICBMs...

You can apply nearly any philosophy to something like business, but that doesn't mean its going to be a perfect fit. When it comes to EVE, no, nothing is even remotely relevant. Wars are won by morale in EVE, nothing more and nothing less. You cannot truly cripple another army, but you can quite easily crush its will to fight. The CFC is exceedingly talented at this.
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#114 - 2012-06-28 09:00:02 UTC
As I understand them they are so basic that they can be applied to a lot of things, including modern warfare and even online games. Of course they are no bullet-proof way to success.

Mostly I like the strategies because they try to broaden your thinking, to leave the "obvious path".

I agree, that seems to be something that the Goons are quite good at.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#115 - 2012-06-28 09:03:48 UTC
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
As I understand them they are so basic that they can be applied to a lot of things, including modern warfare and even online games. Of course they are no bullet-proof way to success.

Mostly I like the strategies because they try to broaden your thinking, to leave the "obvious path".

I agree, that seems to be something that the Goons are quite good at.


As someone who has actually read the art of war, most of the strategy is exceedingly specific, on the level of how to identify the composition of an army by the dust trails its movement creates.

The rest is common sense applied to ancient strategic warfare. Most people who quote it in the context of something like business are either trying to impress someone because they heard it was a good analogy, or have no natural strategic mind of their own.
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#116 - 2012-06-28 09:06:52 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Most people who quote it in the context of something like business are either trying to impress someone because they heard it was a good analogy, or have no natural strategic mind of their own.


That sounds a bit ad hominem and guess it means we have reached the end of discussion. Roll
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#117 - 2012-06-28 09:08:24 UTC
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Most people who quote it in the context of something like business are either trying to impress someone because they heard it was a good analogy, or have no natural strategic mind of their own.


That sounds a bit ad hominem and guess it means we have reached the end of discussion. Roll


" When there is dust rising in a high column, it is the sign of chariots advancing; when the dust is low, but spread over a wide area, it betokens the approach of infantry. When it branches out in different directions, it shows that parties have been sent to collect firewood. A few clouds of dust moving to and fro signify that the army is encamping. "

Guys, DUST 514 is a sign that CCP... wants firewood?
Signal11th
#118 - 2012-06-28 09:10:49 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Yolanta Geezenstack wrote:
As I understand them they are so basic that they can be applied to a lot of things, including modern warfare and even online games. Of course they are no bullet-proof way to success.

Mostly I like the strategies because they try to broaden your thinking, to leave the "obvious path".

I agree, that seems to be something that the Goons are quite good at.


As someone who has actually read the art of war, most of the strategy is exceedingly specific, on the level of how to identify the composition of an army by the dust trails its movement creates.




Cool, so what your saying is that TEST are screwed when it rains? (sorry could'nt resist. Big smile)

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Pipa Porto
#119 - 2012-06-28 09:12:28 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:

The rest is common sense applied to ancient strategic warfare. Most people who quote it in the context of something like business are either trying to impress someone because they heard it was a good analogy, or have no natural strategic mind of their own.


On occasion it's people who like the phrasing better than their own.

Sure, a lot of it's common sense, but it's well phrased (and pithy) common sense.

"Besiege Wei to rescue Zhao"

sounds a lot cooler than

"Hit a soft, valuable target such that they need to stop attacking the guy you're rescuing to save it"

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#120 - 2012-06-28 09:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Yolanta Geezenstack
You are quoting from Sun Tzu's "Art of War" I guess, have never read that one.

I am referring to the "36 Strategems", which are often attributed to Sun Tzu, but afaik it's wrong.

Anyway, this discussion is getting too much itsy-bitsy for my taste and I will end it here. No problem with people who do not want to see if they can apply some of those stratagems in a specific situation.

Ninja-Edit: Agree, RubyPorto. That's why I like poetry, too. :)

I like the stratagems, because often when you're in a sort of fight (a chess game for instance), I tend to behave like an horse with blinder, trotting my way, plodding the path. The stratagems sort of enforce me to search for other ways.