These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Corp hopping. Is it going to be addressed? It's reaching ridiculous levels.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
True Reign
#101 - 2012-06-28 00:09:54 UTC
If you declare a war it's your job to bring the war, no matter what it takes and no matter how your enemy avoids conflict. The corp you are declaring war on has no obligation to you whatsoever. That's the thing about noncensual pvp. The other partner, not being willing and not being consulted, has no obligation to give you any pleasure at all. Tough for you.

Thought your war with AAA was "friendly." Doesn't much sound like it.

Since AAA knows you can find them in null sec if you want, then the members are entitled to avoid you in high sec any way they choose.

I don't think CCP should care about this, frankly.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#102 - 2012-06-28 01:00:23 UTC
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Because there are many reason to go to war aside from seeking a "goodfite."
It's just another "I don't have enough easy targets in high-sec" whines. It's so boring.

Ptraci alt detected.


No I don't do that crap. I have something to say to you I will say it to your face.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#103 - 2012-06-28 01:02:51 UTC
Wardecs are against the corp. If the players leave, you are impacting the corp (if that doesn't hurt the corp then the player was worthless). Truth be told, it still boils down to the whiners wanting a CONCORD-backed ganking permit, not a war with a corp.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#104 - 2012-06-28 01:03:50 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


I'd still like you to answer that other part of my original reply to you, by the way.


No I wouldn't think it's fair. I would think it's kind of stupid and pointless, and I'd stop wasting my time playing such a silly game. Which sort of underlines how I feel, btw. The people who are whining about war decs, mechanics, etc, well - why do you insist? Do something else, or move on.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#105 - 2012-06-28 02:07:02 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


I'd still like you to answer that other part of my original reply to you, by the way.


No I wouldn't think it's fair. I would think it's kind of stupid and pointless, and I'd stop wasting my time playing such a silly game. Which sort of underlines how I feel, btw. The people who are whining about war decs, mechanics, etc, well - why do you insist? Do something else, or move on.

Just because a product I enjoy undergoes changes, some of which aren't necessarily good, doesn't mean I should walk away from it. I'd rather voice my opinions and present arguments that would change the product for the better instead of simply giving up (or sometimes simply reverse bad changes).

And that's exactly what I do on these here forums, aside from joking around and helping people.

Can you imagine how the world would be like if the first sign of disagreement led to disassociation? What's that? Your company passed new safety regulation that force you to wear an ID tag? Better hoof it to your unemployment office. Your wife got a new haircut you're not fond of? Better file for divorce and move the kids to Montana. Your neighbor voted for the Green Party? Better erect a 14-foot fence between your houses and cut off all communication. Society wouldn't exist.

So no, just because I don't like the war changes, doesn't mean I'm going to pack up and leave after eight years and multiple accounts. I don't have anything against you as a person, and you're welcome to live your life the way you want to, but don't expect your world views to be infallible.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2012-06-28 03:29:42 UTC
Darius Brinn wrote:
After the changes to war mechanics, small corps have it harder to wage war on large alliances, an activity that could prove very lucrative if done right.

However, today I'm here to cry and whine about good ole' corp hopping. Yes. Again.

We're currently in the middle of a tiny and friendly war with AAA pilots, and we're finding it quite frustrating to see how fond of corp hopping they are.

AAA pilots LOG OFF, get kicked out of corp on demand, relog, and bypass fleets and camps in NPC corps.

How come this hasn't still been addressed as an EXPLOIT?

It was suggested, some time ago, that whoever wanted to quit a corp before a war should do it before hostilities have started.

It was suggested that something similar to an aggro timer should be implemented, so that corp hoppers find themselves to be fair game for a certain period after quitting a corp/alliance in the middle of a war. Make it 48 or even 24 hours, but make it happen.

Is there any reason to explain why this hasn't been dealt with? I don't think corp-hopping was what they had in mind when they set up the corp recruitment/quitting rules.

Yes, I know. High Sec wars are for useless fools who fail at life and EvE, and yes, we should all come to deep 0.0 where your Titans and Drake/AHAC/Alpha BS fleets will pwn the everloving crap out of us, and we should all quit the game and send our stuff to the nearest AAA office...but, could we please discuss about the topic at hand?

Corp hopping is essentially WRONG, and AAA pilots keep doing this, when there are perfectly feasible, quick and fussless solutions suggested by the playerbase.



The problem isn't a priority.

See, things like buffing the PVE / isk faucet aspect of FW are more important.

As far as fixing exploitable mechanics, see above, as we now watch CCP spend manpower on an "investigation" into manipulation of PVE isk faucets.

You must understand, that the mechanic you're talking about only affects pvp. And, in fact, is benefiting folks who are trying to avoid non-consensual pvp. So you're pretty much on the bottom of their list.


Welcome to the new eve.

They're putting a window in the door next season, so you can peek out into the Incarna hallway. Sometime late 2013 a door-knob will appear. Then you will be able to go to NEX and buy a single-use key that will let you out of your bedroom.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2012-06-28 03:40:28 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:

As far as fixing exploitable mechanics, see above, as we now watch CCP spend manpower on an "investigation" into manipulation of PVE isk faucets.

Because massive isk/resource floods that affect the market don't matter to anyone, PvP'er or PvE'er right?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#108 - 2012-06-28 04:42:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:

As far as fixing exploitable mechanics, see above, as we now watch CCP spend manpower on an "investigation" into manipulation of PVE isk faucets.

Because massive isk/resource floods that affect the market don't matter to anyone, PvP'er or PvE'er right?

You mean the LP thing? That was an LP faucet and an ISK sink. A very interesting LP faucet, eh.

Also yeah, a mineral sink for a good bit. Miners rejoice, your ores are worth more.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#109 - 2012-06-28 09:49:56 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:
You must understand, that the mechanic you're talking about only affects pvp. And, in fact, is benefiting folks who are trying to avoid non-consensual pvp. So you're pretty much on the bottom of their list.

I can think we can shoot that idea out of the sky, since the 'theme' of this current expansion is war.

CCP arent going to create a brand new war system for us to use and have it 'optional'

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#110 - 2012-06-28 11:09:35 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Ban NPC corps, make individuals wardeccable - problem solved.


Shocked ... really ... what could go wrong

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#111 - 2012-06-28 13:51:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Sentamon wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:

Ban NPC corps, make individuals wardeccable - problem solved.


Shocked ... really ... what could go wrong


See I'm not usually a fan of Nicolo da'Vicenza posts (for obvious reasons) but there is a seed of sense in this likely trolling on this occassion.

The problem with wars (as we've heard widely from 0.0 community) is that "everyone" does their logistics and freight movement on npc alts anyway. Hence its next to impossible to actually hit a large entity where it hurts. Given this reality its difficult (for me at least) to get that upset with people corp-hopping to avoid wars when the juicier targets have already (pre corp hopped or simply corp avoided in the first place).

So ....

Restricting npc corp membership to exlude any player more than a month old or with more skillpoints than it takes to fly a level 1 freighter - might be interesting.

And a specific wardec against an individual that follows that individual wherever they go ? Hmmm, interesting that. Would certainly create a new secondary market in listing the hauling alts of 0.0 alliance members.

This kind of thing would certainly change and the game and while sure, it massively increases the ability to "grief dec" particular players (I'm sure I'd be personally permadecced by mittani till the end of time yada yada etc etc) it would also give me the hilarious ability to actually fight back by targetting goonswarm hauler alts.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-06-28 14:59:04 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Darius Brinn wrote:

Still, he can avoid the consequences of being at war, when he originally decided to stick with the corp for a week.


Yes. He doesn't want to be at war with you. He pays his subs so he's entitled to make that decision. If you don't like it, why don't you wardec someone who actually wants to fight you? Otherwise all I can see here is another whiny carebear.


Most Ridiculous Statement of the Year award, for sure.

He doesn't want to be at war with us? Excuse me? What does it have to do with ANYTHING?

I don't want my ships to be shot at. I pay my subs, so gimme. I don't want to mine/farm/do PI/scam, but I want shiny ships. I pay my subs, so gimme.

I'll wardec whoever the hell I want, as this is why there are war MECHANICS in the first place. But corp hopping is not game mechanics per se. It was not intended: it's a design flaw, as stated before.

It's not a system devised by CCP on purpose. It IS an exploit. And their paying whatever subs they pay should grant them no immunity against Concord-sanctioned wars. That's what NPC corps are for.

CCP makes sure you get a character if you pay for it. You get an item if you pay for it. But you are FORCED TO PAY for wars on a per member basis, only to have those targets YOU PAID FOR ONE BY ONE leave the corp sometimes. And money is not refunded, nor you get the targets you paid for.

This makes absolutely no damn sense, and should not be a cause for H'ing TFU suggestions.

Also, yes, I am a whiny carebear, who would very much like to be able to shoot the whiny carebears CCP said I would be able to shoot when they extorted so much ISK from me, thanks. Not much to ask for, I think.
Frying Doom
#113 - 2012-06-28 15:06:11 UTC
Personally I think the 7 day rule they brought in is about right.

Yes you pay for war decs but if you were fighting pvpers or a stronger force they are unlikely to be running away.

You just want to club baby seals. Pick on some real targets and stop complaining that defenseless ones don't want to be slaughtered.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#114 - 2012-06-28 15:06:34 UTC
Don't know if it's been suggested, but a 24 hour cooldown timer?

John Hancock
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2012-06-28 15:08:45 UTC
Hows about you leave a Corp you get flaged for say 24/48 hours and the corp that was at war with you an hand out a Contract on your head to a merc corp. that would bring bounty huntig into the game as i would like it to be. pic up the bounty if you kill im you get an agreeyed about between you and the waring corp that could be very intersting.
Darius Brinn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2012-06-28 15:09:29 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
Wardecs are against the corp. If the players leave, you are impacting the corp (if that doesn't hurt the corp then the player was worthless). Truth be told, it still boils down to the whiners wanting a CONCORD-backed ganking permit, not a war with a corp.


You are not impacting the corp.

Getting to shoot down a target impacts the corp. Forcing them to quit and rejoin (albeit a week later) does not.

And wars are precisely that: Concord-backed ganking permits. But you are forgetting one thing: I bought a permit to gank them...and at the same time, I gave them a free permit to gank ME.

That's what this is supposed to be. That's what EvE wars are.
Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#117 - 2012-06-28 15:20:40 UTC
Hisec PVP, LoL...

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Price Check Aisle3
#118 - 2012-06-28 15:22:24 UTC
Personally, I think the costs for war before this change should have been retained (or maybe 25mil/50mil corp/alliance). You want to promote war? Make it cheap. This paying for targets business is bullshit and it doesn't work in practice.

Next, CCP should define what a Rookie is and dump them from their NPC corp when their time is up to never again be let in. They become "unemployed". The unemployed have the same tax rate as an NPC corp and an increased market transaction tax to boot. Unemployed individuals should be war-dec-able for something like 2mil. To retain NPC corp help (griefing) channels, give the unemployed a regional chat. This should help take care of the null-sec NPC hauler alts.

Dropping corp during a war should flag you in some way and the war should follow you for at least 24 hours, preferably 48+. You should retain the flag in your corp history, a stain on your "resume".

Keep allies and allowed the unemployed to use allies as well. Drop the base cost before doubling for allies to 2mil or something. It can still get stupid expensive but it's not the "let's dogpile the entirety of EVE onto thirty bored guys from null-sec" insanity that we had before.

vOv
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#119 - 2012-06-28 15:29:05 UTC
So (on the assumption we get a mechanic that prevents established (not noob) players from joining or remaining in NPC corps) - how about we have a financial penalty that is paid by any player leaving a corp/alliance at war equal to the amount it costs to wardec that entity - that goes directly to the wallet of the other side.

Ie ...

Goonswarm wardec Star Fraction..

Any goon that leaves needs to pay 500m to our corp wallet.
Any SF pilot that leaves needs to pay 50m to GS corp wallet.

Call it a penalty fee for deserting. (If CCP want their filthy isk sink have 10% of the total end up in concord taxes)

That would also go some way to balancing the disparity in initial wardec fees I think.


But of course thats the "edge case."

More practical purpose is that when wardecing a Goonswarm hauler alt corp (seeing as how their haulers are no longer allowed in npc corps) you'd at least get 50m isk back from the wardec evading goons skipping corp again to cover the 50m isk you needed to pay in the first place.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
None ofthe Above
#120 - 2012-06-28 16:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Jade Constantine wrote:
So (on the assumption we get a mechanic that prevents established (not noob) players from joining or remaining in NPC corps) - how about we have a financial penalty that is paid by any player leaving a corp/alliance at war equal to the amount it costs to wardec that entity - that goes directly to the wallet of the other side.

Ie ...

Goonswarm wardec Star Fraction..

Any goon that leaves needs to pay 500m to our corp wallet.
Any SF pilot that leaves needs to pay 50m to GS corp wallet.

Call it a penalty fee for deserting. (If CCP want their filthy isk sink have 10% of the total end up in concord taxes)

That would also go some way to balancing the disparity in initial wardec fees I think.


But of course thats the "edge case."

More practical purpose is that when wardecing a Goonswarm hauler alt corp (seeing as how their haulers are no longer allowed in npc corps) you'd at least get 50m isk back from the wardec evading goons skipping corp again to cover the 50m isk you needed to pay in the first place.


This pay to leave is just crazy. Would this affect people booted? If not then people could just request to be booted to avoid. If so then a corp can't boot a spai unless the spai pays? Not to mention the space-broke being stuck in corp cause they can't pay to leave. Kick em while they are down. Way to make sure people leave the game.

EDIT: Pulled a piece of this post, when I realized I had misunderstood Jade's intent. Invalid comment withdrawn.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.