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Devalued ISHUKONE Shirt? CCP Marketing Malpractice? [UPDATE]

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#261 - 2012-06-27 19:16:18 UTC
economics: the study of marketing virtual pants

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#262 - 2012-06-27 19:17:36 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
economics: the study of marketing virtual pants


Does virtual make a difference?
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#263 - 2012-06-27 19:18:54 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
Ariel Marquette wrote:
How many times are you going to repeat the same bogus argument? Everyone here has examined the details of the offer, and you're the only one who seems to have gotten it all wrong.


Not really because the mail I just got back from one of the CCP Devs said he is "aware of the issue."


Which simply means he has read either this or the feed back thread.

I suppose they could refund the 500 AUR price to you as a gesture of good will.

Again, a one time offer to get a special price on PLEX and an additional Special Edition shirt with purchase is one thing.

A one time offer to aquire a Special Edition shirt is quite another.


I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#264 - 2012-06-27 19:19:07 UTC
Since this thread has devolved into the OP simply copy/pasting his previous statements (in a dazzleing display of circular logic) that have already been meticulously shown to be incorrect assumptions on his part, I think this thread has pretty much run it's course.

It's done now except for the trolling.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#265 - 2012-06-27 19:19:49 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Since this thread has devolved into the OP simply copy/pasting his previous statements (in a dazzleing display of circular logic) that have already been meticulously shown to be incorrect assumptions on his part, I think this thread has pretty much run it's course.

It's done now except for the trolling.

I prefer to think of this as having fun through education, not trolling.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#266 - 2012-06-27 19:20:11 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
economics: the study of marketing virtual pants


Does virtual make a difference?

who even knows at this point

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#267 - 2012-06-27 19:20:27 UTC
The Antiquarian wrote:
I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.


where's the chorus of affected players, then

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Heldrigan Saken
Doomheim
#268 - 2012-06-27 19:20:37 UTC
To quote a someecards.com card, "I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people....I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out."
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#269 - 2012-06-27 19:21:29 UTC
i'm pretty good at economics, i figured it out through reading the backs of sugar packets - The Antiquarian

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#270 - 2012-06-27 19:21:43 UTC
oh you have that MD thread linked in the OP, nevermind

sorry, it's hard to take MD seriously after they were robbed blind by the nth bank scheme

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#271 - 2012-06-27 19:22:34 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.


where's the chorus of affected players, then


Here is a small sample of the chorus from the affected players.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#272 - 2012-06-27 19:24:05 UTC
The Antiquarian wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
Ariel Marquette wrote:
How many times are you going to repeat the same bogus argument? Everyone here has examined the details of the offer, and you're the only one who seems to have gotten it all wrong.


Not really because the mail I just got back from one of the CCP Devs said he is "aware of the issue."


Which simply means he has read either this or the feed back thread.

I suppose they could refund the 500 AUR price to you as a gesture of good will.

Again, a one time offer to get a special price on PLEX and an additional Special Edition shirt with purchase is one thing.

A one time offer to aquire a Special Edition shirt is quite another.


I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.


The only value CCP has ever assigned those items is 500 AUR (or is it lower, I forget).

The price other players put on those items is not something CCP controls nor should be held accountable for.

If they had specifically stated the item would never be offered again, I would most certainly be on your side in this.

But they did not.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Norrin Ellis
Doomheim
#273 - 2012-06-27 19:27:05 UTC
I want to make sure I'm really clear on all the points the OP is making here.

1) He spent the money ON THE SHIRT, as he would not have bought the PLEX otherwise.
2) He is upset that CCP devalued the shirt from about 2 billion ISK to somewhere around 50 million.

So, in your advanced understanding of economics, you paid the real-money equivalent of about 6.5 billion ISK (13 PLEX @ approx. 500 mil ea.) for a shirt with a peak value of 2 billion ISK (4 PLEX @ approx. 500 mil ea.). You completely ignore the fact that you were buying 13 PLEX and continue to insist that you made the purchase exclusively because CCP was offering the shirt. That is, you essentially deny that the PLEX had any value to you at all. You, therefore, according to your logic and the premises you expect us to assume, entered into a 4.5 billion ISK loss to begin with, and are now complaining. Why?

Either you are lying to us about your valuation of the offer (which I hope and assume to be true), or you are the dumbest person that has ever played EVE and should not be trusted with real money.

Say what you will about my community college education (I'm sure you have a Ph.D. from Harvard). I could apply what I learned in high school to realize that, based on your own premises, you made an awful purchase. Now, based on reality, you got a really sweet deal on 13 PLEX, plus a free shirt, which isn't so bad. Congratulations.

CEO, Venture Racing

Manager, EVE Online Hold'Em
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#274 - 2012-06-27 19:28:29 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
Ariel Marquette wrote:
How many times are you going to repeat the same bogus argument? Everyone here has examined the details of the offer, and you're the only one who seems to have gotten it all wrong.


Not really because the mail I just got back from one of the CCP Devs said he is "aware of the issue."


Which simply means he has read either this or the feed back thread.

I suppose they could refund the 500 AUR price to you as a gesture of good will.

Again, a one time offer to get a special price on PLEX and an additional Special Edition shirt with purchase is one thing.

A one time offer to aquire a Special Edition shirt is quite another.


I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.


The only value CCP has ever assigned those items is 500 AUR (or is it lower, I forget).

The price other players put on those items is not something CCP controls nor should be held accountable for.

If they had specifically stated the item would never be offered again, I would most certainly be on your side in this.

But they did not.


I don't really mine or have a complete understanding of the loot rate, but when CCP decided to cut off the ore supplies from the Drone Region and when the price of the affected ores spiked by as much as 20-30% initially, there were furious players asking for changes.

Those who were affected by the recent Nex Store move, were adversely affected by more than hundreds of % in negative return, upon the initial investment (those who purchased the shirts with ISK). Are you really telling us that CCP is not accountable for depriving their initial capital by several folds?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#275 - 2012-06-27 19:31:04 UTC
The Antiquarian wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.


where's the chorus of affected players, then


Here is a small sample of the chorus from the affected players.


You realize that there are only 2 or 3 people in that entire thread complaining right?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
The Antiquarian
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#276 - 2012-06-27 19:32:59 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.


where's the chorus of affected players, then


Here is a small sample of the chorus from the affected players.


You realize that there are only 2 or 3 people in that entire thread complaining right?


Then can we safely assume that based on the number of active forum-goers, we can extrapolate and apply that percentage to that number you've specified? Just because only 2 or 3 people are complaining doesn't necessarily mean that those were the only adversely affected party amongst 350,000 subscribers.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#277 - 2012-06-27 19:36:38 UTC
The Antiquarian wrote:

Then can we safely assume that based on the number of active forum-goers, we can extrapolate and apply that percentage to that number you've specified? Just because only 2 or 3 people are complaining doesn't necessarily mean that those were the only adversely affected party amongst 350,000 subscribers.

or you're one of the dumbest four people out of 350k.

I know which answer i'm going with

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Alerada
Surprise It's Cthulhu
#278 - 2012-06-27 19:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alerada
The Antiquarian wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:
I know my situation is funny to you guys, but there are dozens of other players who were adversely affected by recent CCP's decision to introduce these items via NEX for $0.50. There are dozens of other players who invested approximately 1.1B-1.2B to purchase the shirts. There are also dozens more, who spent several hundred million ISKs to purchase the outfits offered via the Russian Boxed Edition. CCP pretty much deprived much of the investments made by those unfortunate individuals.

If CCP is to offer reparation as a "gesture of good will," it needs to offer the going market-rate prior to the recent patch.


where's the chorus of affected players, then


Here is a small sample of the chorus from the affected players.


You realize that there are only 2 or 3 people in that entire thread complaining right?


Then can we safely assume that based on the number of active forum-goers, we can extrapolate and apply that percentage to that number you've specified? Just because only 2 or 3 people are complaining doesn't necessarily mean that those were the only adversely affected party amongst 350,000 subscribers.


I can extrapolate that based on your intelligence thus far... in your whole life... it will extrapolate to 0 and very probably to negative
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#279 - 2012-06-27 19:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
The drone region/mining changes are a pretty big stretch from discussing your market speculations.

CCP's motivation was to balance the economy and strengthen it's base (the mining segment), and this was accomplished admirably.

Obviously a shift in the economy was going to force some people to change what they are doing or they would be adversely affected. Pretty much everyone understood that basic fact, and if you are paying attention there is at best a minute fraction of the EVE player base that is complaining about it.

A great deal of mineral speculation was done prior to the change. Some people made a fortune, some people lost their shirt.

If you speculate on the value of an item it is, as always, at your own risk.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#280 - 2012-06-27 19:40:34 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
The Antiquarian wrote:

Then can we safely assume that based on the number of active forum-goers, we can extrapolate and apply that percentage to that number you've specified? Just because only 2 or 3 people are complaining doesn't necessarily mean that those were the only adversely affected party amongst 350,000 subscribers.

or you're one of the dumbest four people out of 350k.

I know which answer i'm going with



CCP did market PvP on real money paying customers. This is gold.
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