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Question about Last Will and legal stuff

First post
Author
Dervinus
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#21 - 2012-06-27 14:51:01 UTC
Quaaid wrote:
Eighteen posts and nobody is talking about the elephant in the room.


Why do you want to know this?


Because he is probably terminally ill. Was it really that hard to figure out?

o7 toonies

Quaaid
Phoenix Foundry
#22 - 2012-06-27 14:51:29 UTC
Morganta wrote:

why would it be important?


Depends on the answer. It has potential to be very important.
Tyreul Severasse
#23 - 2012-06-27 14:52:55 UTC
Dervinus wrote:
Quaaid wrote:
Eighteen posts and nobody is talking about the elephant in the room.


Why do you want to know this?


Because he is probably terminally ill. Was it really that hard to figure out?


Yeah well that doesn't seem to be what the OP wants to talk about here. Otherwise they would have been mentioned it?
stoicfaux
#24 - 2012-06-27 14:53:26 UTC
Quaaid wrote:
Eighteen posts and nobody is talking about the elephant in the room.


Why do you want to know this?

Because if it's in a will and can be transferred to someone else, then it is an asset. Assets can be insured.

The real elephant in the room, is "OMG! The OP just figured out how to convert his huge stack of PLEX (and isk) to Real Money by "proving" that his Eve account is an asset and thus his insurance company has to pay out upon the loss of the account and/or its destruction." Dying or faking his death might not even be necessary.

Also, people don't like being reminded of their own mortality, hence why no one had the courage to ask previously.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Tony Two Bullet
Monocle Madness
#25 - 2012-06-27 15:02:36 UTC
Most likely your estate will have to transfer the characters over with their assets to the new persons account after you have moved along.

The most likely thing to happen will be to give the person who handles your will your login and password and identifying information (in case password is lost/changed) and they will have to pay the $20 fees and transfer the character to the other persons account of choice.

Since the account is legally bound to your person, I figure CCP will have to sort that out.

The only thing I see possible is that CCP waives the transfer fees in that case, but that seems like a customer relations/billing department issue.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#26 - 2012-06-27 15:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
stoicfaux wrote:
tl;dr Hire a lawyer.


Or just petition CCP for a ruling on it. I'm pretty sure they'd have the decency to honor such a thing. How they'd accomodate it is up to them, but I know *I* wouldn't want to be the guy who demanded $60 to transfer characters that a dying man wanted to give to a friend/family member.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

stoicfaux
#27 - 2012-06-27 15:38:19 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
tl;dr Hire a lawyer.


Or just petition CCP for a ruling on it. I'm pretty sure they'd have the decency to honor such a thing. How they'd accomodate it is up to them, but I know *I* wouldn't want to be the guy who demanded $60 to transfer characters that a dying man wanted to give to a friend/family member.

As a compassionate human being, I agree. However, if CCP doesn't come through, then the OP may need a legal work around.

Why would CCP deny such a request? Because from a legal perspective they might be accused of violating their own EULA which could set a precedent which could then could expose them to lawsuits about account transfers and sharing. (Which could open the door to legal RMT outside of CCP's control.)

Any real world lawyers want to comment (but comments should not be construed as legal consul) on the situation with computer accounts, virtual property and wills? Last I heard, your estate's executor is allowed to do things like access your facebook accounts if directed to do so in a will. Still fuzzy territory though.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-27 16:32:41 UTC
Hey man, you're going to die soon-ish ?

Wow. That's ... well ... no idea how you're feeling about it,
but seems you're all good. At least, that's what i hope for.

Hey ... I promise i'll look to the other side when your pod passes me by on your way up.


Fly safe on your wings, mate. o7
Lady Hek
Pyramid Celestial
#29 - 2012-06-27 16:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Hek
Dear Gustav can I please have your guardian vexor...just to borrow...also please dont die i love you!!!

**you wernt thinking of leaving me the account when you die were you?**

*** I ♥ polish **** ***
Steve Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-06-27 17:45:18 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Quaaid wrote:
Eighteen posts and nobody is talking about the elephant in the room.


Why do you want to know this?

Because if it's in a will and can be transferred to someone else, then it is an asset. Assets can be insured.

The real elephant in the room, is "OMG! The OP just figured out how to convert his huge stack of PLEX (and isk) to Real Money by "proving" that his Eve account is an asset and thus his insurance company has to pay out upon the loss of the account and/or its destruction." Dying or faking his death might not even be necessary.

False argument.



1)Depending on the state in the US you can legaly will your rental agreements to another person. However given the month to month nature of the EvE online user agreement CCP can argue that the "lease" terminates when the payed part of the subscription ends.



2) Credit card accounts are ususaly not transferable, and the debt transfers to the Estate. for example Jay and Lana have a joint mastercard and Jay has a Sears card in his name only, if Jay dies the debt on the card transfers to the estate but not the account. I use Sears in this case because they used to allow spouses to create there own account (if they could) and simply "Transfered" the debt to the suvivors card if that was how they wanted to handle it.(I think Sears has since stoped doing that)



3) Generaly the courts have tended to find that Death is an exception to how property or rights are normaly handled. Weird exeptions to the law and to general practice have come up all the time (a three year old "owning" property and or stock, including "adult buinesses"* with the relivant licences, and who was allowed to vote on the stock) that would not be allowed otherwise.



Or to put it another way, just because someone else died and the rights transfered to someone else dosent mean that you can do the same thing just because all of the parties involved continued to keep liveing



*as in you had to be over 18 or 21 to own-operate-licence said buisness,(IE a race track or refinery) not that it involved naked people in any way shape or form
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-06-27 17:52:34 UTC
I also am curious as to the answer to the question, let us know.

Thought I was def gonna die (well, I had no clue, but the docs were convinced) a couple years ago and wondered this myself.

I was surprised and ended up not dying. I hope the OP has a similar surprise awaiting him.
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-06-27 18:00:27 UTC
Why doesnt the recipient of the OP's will just use some plexes and transfer his toon to a new account owned by himself? I'm sure thats legal, and CCP gets their share of the money. Everyone's happy.

I dont think CCP keeps track of who has passed away IRL so as long as CCP doesnt know when the OP died, the new owner could just transfer his inheritance to a new account using the OP's passwords. (slightly bending the rules here, but I think that would work)
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-06-27 18:01:00 UTC
The Chronophage wrote:
Why doesnt the recipient of the OP's will just use some plexes and transfer the OP's toon to a new account owned by himself? I'm sure thats legal, and CCP gets their share of the money. Everyone's happy.

I dont think CCP keeps track of who has passed away IRL so as long as CCP doesnt know when the OP died, the new owner could just transfer his inheritance to a new account using the OP's passwords. (slightly bending the rules here, but I think that would work)

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-27 18:48:00 UTC
Quaaid wrote:
Morganta wrote:

why would it be important?


Depends on the answer. It has potential to be very important.


What is surprising is that OP tried to sell his account here twice before, last time was march 2012.
And suddenly his 2 year old toon becomes so important that he wants to put it in his last will?
Cry fo help very much?
Sh*t, I hate it when stuff like this happens.....

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Adalun Dey
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-06-27 20:10:24 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
What is surprising is that OP tried to sell his account here twice before, last time was march 2012.
And suddenly his 2 year old toon becomes so important that he wants to put it in his last will?
Cry fo help very much?
Sh*t, I hate it when stuff like this happens.....

Why is that weird? He just wants to ensure the continued existence of his char. If nobody here buys it, maybe a relative will use it. Also, I don't think CCP will object to retaining a subscription, even if it's a different person's credit card being charged.

[i]" Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand, I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. "[/i]

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#36 - 2012-06-27 20:15:43 UTC
Sevena Black wrote:
Write down your login and password.

Then have the new owner change the payment method.

Then send it to Simi Kusoni for verification and safe keeping.


Fixed.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Gustav Knuttsen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-06-29 16:35:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Gustav Knuttsen
OK i have answer here it is:

"Sharing accounts is a violation of the EULA and is not permitted. If you want to give away your characters then then you can transfer the characters from your account to an account that belongs to the party in question. Please let us know if you have any further questions."

Well its not true and CCP is wrong about EULA. I cant share anything if/when Im dead (Can I?). When Im dead EULA is not for me anymore. And EULA say nothing about Dead. So yes its needs to be fixed. I know that this discussion is more philosophical but well .. someone must ask questions.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#38 - 2012-06-29 16:46:56 UTC
I think the EULA would be interpreted as broadly as possible. If one person created the account, any other person logging into it is "account sharing" irrelevant of the status of the account creator.

It would be a bit cleared if the EULA had language like "Only the creator of the account may log into it". But there is also the issue that it is very difficult for me to transfer my characters and stuff to another person when I am dead.

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Gustav Knuttsen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-06-29 16:52:28 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I think the EULA would be interpreted as broadly as possible. If one person created the account, any other person logging into it is "account sharing" irrelevant of the status of the account creator.

It would be a bit cleared if the EULA had language like "Only the creator of the account may log into it". But there is also the issue that it is very difficult for me to transfer my characters and stuff to another person when I am dead.


Yes but you see the problem right ?

technically none should be able to login to my account after my dead right ? So how they / he will be able to transfer characters or anything ? Its a logic mistake.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-06-30 02:36:28 UTC
I think there should be a means by which you could will your account to someone else in the event of your death.


Be nice to think your character may live on after you are gone Smile

But failing that, then perhaps an in-game will that would distribute your in-game wealth to other in-game folks that you know upon death.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

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