EVE General Discussion

Does this mean we have to put our posts calling our enemies and their shipfits stupid in CAOD now? What about if their posts are terrible outside of CAOD?

I mean, if I can kill someone because they do dumb things on a repeated basis over a period of time, I think it is reasonable to say "Hey, you are dumb, perhaps you should have fit a second civilian autocannon on your ratting carrier, and that way you will be less dumb."

Or will I forever have to go to that bastion of true posting outside of the EveO forums, that wretched hive of scum and villainy which cannot be named but yet everyone knows the name of already, if I wish to call someone dumb?

Quick question, what is the value in calling someone 'dumb'? As someone who frequents the forums you must surely be aware that giving out an insult generally results in getting an insult back thus setting up a cycle of deterioration in the thread. Do you feel that good threads being derailed in this manner benefits the community in general? Do you find that threads of these nature go on to become threads for the betterment of the community?

Have you ever thought of instead of insulting the player in question that you might wish to help him/her instead?

Now I realize this is not going to be a heavenly forum where people constantly Hi 5 and hug each other but surely starting posts with calling people dumb is the very definition of non-productive.

I ask this because I am genuinely curious.

Good afternoon, my name is Dorrim Barstorlode with the CCL. I'm just writing here to let people get a chance to know me a little better so we can get back to having a generally good forum (No pun intended). As most of you know, we're player volunteers, which means that there's a chance you've run into us without knowing it. I can tell you that I've had the pleasure of doing stuff in every area of EVE, but I mostly stick to w-space just because that's where I'm most comfortable. I won't lie and tell you I know a ton about null sec politics, but I know they happen and as such get discussed. That's cool with me, man. Just don't let it get too crazy. As for the rest of space, I can comfortably tell you about pretty much every type of activity you can do where, and with a working knowledge of the mechanics. Because that sort of thing is important to know.

With that in mind, I'd like to take a minute to let you all know that I'll try and ensure that I don't accidentally your entire thread. It's not what I'm here to do.

I'm just here to try and keep things civil, and put things where they need to go if need be. I've still got more to learn, so bear with me as i get settled in and I'll try to make sure everything works out just fine.

Thanks for being patient and willing to work with us.

Fly well.

As there has now been an acknowledgement of player issues with the moderation, would CCP please un ban those accounts that took part in the protest. Getting a perma ban for some junk threads, compared to some of the stuff I have seen on the forums is harsh.

Tal

Yes I have petitioned.

Seriouspost: This is a very good question for The Mittani. He literally makes this sort of thing his business (not calling people stupid, mind you, although he is very good at that, which is arguably mostly how he came to leading Goonswarm). That is to say, he spends his time winning the metagame. While the metagame* involves other things like outing spies and planting our own, often enough it comes down to persuading or beating down members of opposing alliances over public forums--the only place where both sides can see what the other has to say without being able to silence each other. There is a reason Goonswarm takes its posting seriously.**

If you can think back to RoyOfCA and Black Rise--bless you, Roy--he literally sat there and called peoples' corporation and alliance leaders stupid, corrupt cowards, and guess what happened: R I S E abandoned their space and never put up a fight. More recently, Goonswarm won the forum war against RaidenDOT. They were convinced they were already going to lose the war between us before it ever started. And then there wasn't even a war, as such, as we just steamrolled over their undefended and abandoned region in the fastest sov change Eve Online has ever seen outside of when Karttoon went on vacation.

Calling people stupid (with appropriate justification, such as "Your fit is terrible and we have told you multiple times it is terrible and you continue to use it" or "You don't check peoples' APIs when you recruit them" or "way to jump unscouted to a beacon, jesus christ") is a very valid tactic in an arsenal used for demoralizing and destroying enemies. If you just spray and pray with insults, you risk being identified as a moron yourself, so there's that to counterbalance morons sperging everywhere. There is also the notion that if you post, you should do so with proper grammar and spelling, and if you do not, u r an moron. We like to remind an morons of what they are in the hopes that they will post better.

Beating people in this game does not rely solely on blowing up their ships. It means getting them to not log in when they need to defend their stuff, or getting them to play other games because that's more fun than the thought of losing, or making them realize their leadership is utterly incompetent and corrupt and that they, the average Joe Poster, are being used and tossed aside by their supposed friends, or that their friends are idiots and Joe Poster should find a new home. Goodposters aim to destroy an enemy's morale through words. Making someone appear stupid to others or making them feel as though they have done something stupid is incredibly handy in accomplishing this.

So yes, being able to call people stupid is very important.


*You can't actually win the metagame
**this is not the actual reason

I am pretty sure we are polemically split on what we feel is required in terms of censorship. If there is not a rule set in place on a forum then why should people not post porn, trojans, malware and other stuff. Why should people not be outright hostile, menacing and threatening? Why should a productive discussion ever happen in that type of atmosphere? Perhaps you feel those should not be censored and people should survive on their ability to be savvy or not, as the case may be.

Believe me when I say, and you can quote me on this, players who do not want to be part of fair and reasonable discussions on these forums will soon find they do not belong on this discussion area at all. that is not designed to be a threat or convey a sense of malice but is intended to show our resolve to create a much more amiable atmosphere for players and developers in general.

Hello!

I'm just ordinary Russian pilot, currently not affiliated with any of the big alliances. My language may be somehow wrong, but I'm able to freely read and understand, so sometimes do the step out of the Russian section, because there is some very interesting and funny threads in GD, thanks to you :). Also, there is material for my translations.

I was (and possibly am) a carebear, but sometimes ago received the pleasure of low-sec PvP in active role with small gang, so my killboard stats are positive.

I'm loving EVE deeply, being here from Revelations II if I remember date correctly, but still feel no reason to meet the grand polirics, so 'Goonswaffegate' had been almost missed by me.

Okay, I'm going to ask before I say anything else, because I really don't wanna say something I'm not allowed to say.* Can I discuss "that one website that starts with a K" and its forum moderation? If I can, and I will do so with the utmost care, I'd like to compare and contrast the moderation, the allowance of insults/etc., and the discussions that form as a result.

*No pun or rib intended here, I'm honestly just going slow on this one.

No, not really. I fail to see what another forum does has any relation to this forum. For example, if you were banned on Failheap should I extend that ban here so that we are in harmony? Would you find something of this nature to be fair? I would certainly not.

The rules of other forums, what they allow or do not allow is completely up to those communities and their administrators.

I have no intention of discussing specific cases on the forums. You stated that you already have a petition on the subject so a Community Rep will be in otuch when we get to that in the queue.