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When does all the ganking make mining worth it?
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Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#201 - 2012-06-26 13:34:53 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
It's laughable to suggest high sec is more profitable for miners than null.


when scordite, pyrox, and veld are all worth more than crokite, it's not laughable at all.

wrong, but not laughable.

Sounds like these minerals are used more than the others. Reducing the supply of these low ends will only raise their prices. Roll

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Tobias Durandal
Cruisers Crew
The Initiative.
#202 - 2012-06-26 13:37:26 UTC
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Reech Yvormes wrote:
is that why people go to high sec to find newbies to gank?

i take it you need to do that because your life depends on it.

ie, its too risky for you to fight a competent miner?

because lions kill the weakest because they have to.

of course you could just be talking about hulks and people who bought their mining barge with plex....

PS it occured to me that maybe my experience would have been better if i started playing eve when there were still learning skills, that higher skilled players couldnt grief from me in one kill of my pod?

you could kill my mining vessels all day if you want aslong as you dont add days to my training times. thx.

thats all i guess. i think ive almost cried every tear i can.

might be able to wring out a few more. anyone got a violin. this really needs a violin.


You don't get those guys.

Their life, they very enjoyment in EvE completely depends on reading posts like yours.
This is how low they are, feeding on "your tears" and feeling a climax because they podded you.


I find the greatest satisfaction comes from getting people to give you their ship. Pods are pods. Little crispy space critter babies all look the same.
Dave Stark
#203 - 2012-06-26 13:40:45 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
It's laughable to suggest high sec is more profitable for miners than null.


when scordite, pyrox, and veld are all worth more than crokite, it's not laughable at all.

wrong, but not laughable.

Sounds like these minerals are used more than the others. Reducing the supply of these low ends will only raise their prices. Roll


suits me, i have 13m pyerite sitting in a station from a hauler spawn yesterday. up, up and away i say.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#204 - 2012-06-26 13:41:51 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
It's laughable to suggest high sec is more profitable for miners than null.


when scordite, pyrox, and veld are all worth more than crokite, it's not laughable at all.

wrong, but not laughable.

Sounds like these minerals are used more than the others. Reducing the supply of these low ends will only raise their prices. Roll


suits me, i have 13m pyerite sitting in a station from a hauler spawn yesterday. up, up and away i say.

And fellow capsuleers, this is how one identifies a troll.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Wildwa
The War Forge
#205 - 2012-06-26 13:50:32 UTC
Marzuq wrote:
The stupidity in this thread is purely astounding.

People are complaining that you make a measly 20 million an hour mining and call it "veteran level income"?

20 million an hour is a very low rate of income in this game. Mining is easy to do as result the market reflects the income of mining as it is.

If you're making only 20 million an hour in nullsec, then you must be terribad.

Then there are people demanding that all of mining should be moved to nullsec?

Now that's getting ridiculous at that point there will be a demand for everything to be moved into nullsec, with nothing else in other spaces. You won't get people to come to nullsec, they will say "screw it" and go play diablo 3.

The community of the game will fall apart and eventually there won't be enough players to keep the game running.


Pretty much sums it up...
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#206 - 2012-06-26 13:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Reech Yvormes
Alaya Carrier wrote:


You don't get those guys.

Their life, they very enjoyment in EvE completely depends on reading posts like yours.
This is how low they are, feeding on "your tears" and feeling a climax because they podded you.


its not exactly tears. ive only been playing a month. im going to be moving on and will quickly forget about eve but now whenever i hear people talking about eve in other games, i will know that its nothing but outdated grief mechanics and a bad community with a bad support cherry on top. i doubt i will even remember my login details. i didnt even get a chance to get attached. thats the point i guess.

its barely a footstep in my gaming journey.

its more like feedback to let you know that these people are actively killing off your stock of animals to hunt. fairly, in a decent fight.

and everyones all fine about it. including support.

they gave me a predicted useless reply, saying that me being podded by a -10 sec player in a high sec zone is player v player.

tears?

if anything, its tears of relief from actually not commiting any more than 1 month and half a week of my life to this kind of "player v player" heh.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#207 - 2012-06-26 14:01:54 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:

its not exactly tears. ive only been playing a month. im going to be moving on and will quickly forget about eve but now whenever i hear people talking about eve in other games, i will know that its nothing but outdated grief mechanics and a bad community with a bad support cherry on top. i doubt i will even remember my login details.

its barely a footstep in my gaming journey.

its more like feedback to let you know that these people are actively killing off your stock of animals to hunt. fairly, in a decent fight.

and everyones all fine about it. including support.

they gave me a predicted useless reply, saying that me being podded by a -10 sec player in a high sec zone is player v player.

tears?

if anything, its tears of relief from actually not commiting any more than 1 month and 1 week of my life to this kind of "player v player" heh.

Well, I'm sad to see you go, but it's certainly understandable. Just know that not everyone in Eve are like these bad apples.

Good luck in your next game!

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Dave Stark
#208 - 2012-06-26 14:06:51 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
It's laughable to suggest high sec is more profitable for miners than null.


when scordite, pyrox, and veld are all worth more than crokite, it's not laughable at all.

wrong, but not laughable.

Sounds like these minerals are used more than the others. Reducing the supply of these low ends will only raise their prices. Roll


suits me, i have 13m pyerite sitting in a station from a hauler spawn yesterday. up, up and away i say.

And fellow capsuleers, this is how one identifies a troll.


which of the things that i''ve said is a falshood?
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#209 - 2012-06-26 14:06:55 UTC
So the OP question was, "When does all the ganking make mining worth it?"

Before Hulkageddon, I'd see at least 5 to 10 Hulks in just about every single system I visited in Highsec.

Since this permageddon thing has been going on, those same systems are either empty, or have 2 or 3 hulks in them.

Stockpiles are starting to dry up, highsec mineral prices are going up and up.

So, to answer the question - If you're not an idiot who can't avoid being ganked, highsec mining is starting to be just as much if not more profitable than running a couple level 4 missions per hour.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#210 - 2012-06-26 14:17:52 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Cyprus Amaro wrote:
Would you explain the logic train that led you to this conclusion? How are hi-sec miners "worthless parasites" to EVE? I'm relatively new, but I thought that mining has always been an integral part of EVE since its inception.


Highsec miners (and other highsec carebears) are worthless parasites because they wreck the risk/reward balance by making veteran-level income in what is supposed to be the tutorial area, and then whining and crying and demanding nerfs every time someone threatens their ability to carebear AFK with 100% safety.

Miners in general are a useful part of EVE, but they are supposed to be mining in lowsec/0.0. Unfortunately the easy money of highsec, combined with mining bots, drives mineral prices down and kills the appeal of mining outside highsec for the few people who might otherwise make good money there.

End result: lazy and stupid people get rich at the expense of the overall health of the game. I think that's a pretty good definition of "worthless parasite".



The obvious solution is to stop pretending that high sec is a "training area". That hasn't been its primary use since at least 2005 whether you like that or not, and there's no way to make that river run back uphill.

When we change the way we look at hi-sec, we can cast off the limitations imposed by that view. I wrote more about this concept here.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#211 - 2012-06-26 14:22:38 UTC
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%
Aulx-Gao Ekanon
#212 - 2012-06-26 14:34:58 UTC
Lilan Kahn wrote:
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%


The ISK loss is reduced, but I'm not so sure the risk is any less. With fewer available Hulk targets the suicide gankers are hitting Covetors and Retrievers, both easier targets. (Just try tanking a Retriever. I dare ya. Blink)

_Naughty by nature, wicked by choice. _
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#213 - 2012-06-26 14:35:11 UTC
Lilan Kahn wrote:
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%

Indeed because they would never think to expand Hulkageddon to include mining barges. Roll

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#214 - 2012-06-26 14:35:50 UTC
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Lilan Kahn wrote:
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%


The ISK loss is reduced, but I'm not so sure the risk is any less. With fewer available Hulk targets the suicide gankers are hitting Covetors and Retrievers, both easier targets. (Just try tanking a Retriever. I dare ya. Blink)

Already done.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#215 - 2012-06-26 14:44:52 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


The obvious solution is to stop pretending that high sec is a "training area". That hasn't been its primary use since at least 2005 whether you like that or not, and there's no way to make that river run back uphill.

When we change the way we look at hi-sec, we can cast off the limitations imposed by that view. I wrote more about this concept here.


I like the ideas you posted in that thread.

One thing I've always wondered about... If they wanted miners/industrialists to move out of highsec, why do highsec stations have the highest refining/reprocessing stations? Shouldn't that get higher the deeper you dive in to the game?
Ezra Tair
Doomheim
#216 - 2012-06-26 14:45:16 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

Highsec miners (and other highsec carebears) are worthless parasites because they wreck the risk/reward balance by making veteran-level income in what is supposed to be the tutorial area, and then whining and crying and demanding nerfs every time someone threatens their ability to carebear AFK with 100% safety.

Miners in general are a useful part of EVE, but they are supposed to be mining in lowsec/0.0. Unfortunately the easy money of highsec, combined with mining bots, drives mineral prices down and kills the appeal of mining outside highsec for the few people who might otherwise make good money there.
.



I don't really care one way or another but How do you equate 'sandbox mmo' with 'whats is supposed to be the tutorial area'?

You says they are 'supposed' to be in null sec. But oddly, gankers are not 'supposed' to be killing random players in high sec. So your points pretty blurry.
Blobber NL
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-06-26 15:03:11 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.


So becouse you say so everybody must play your style? If the devs feeled like highsec is only a tutorial erea then they would have trown us out whit some patches that would make us move away one way or another.

So your point of view is simply wrong, you just want more newbies to shoot at.
Highsec is much less profitable then nullsec, altough 'safer'. A good ballance in my opinion. Not everybody wants to press like a spastic kid on the D scan every single second when he is playing the game.

For a few days/weeks its fun, but the most people just want to have the option to go back to highsec so they can relax a bit and shooting space rocks whit thier fancy mining lasers while they are drugged by some kind of a drugs.

So yeah, just gtfo and go cry.

nullsec crybear.


Regards,
Highsec Nooby crying carebear str0ng.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#218 - 2012-06-26 15:06:57 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.

The question isn't how the level of hatred toward the highsec miners compares to other levels of hatred in other MMOs. The question is whether the hatred toward highsec miners is justified or not. Given the history of what the highsec miners have done and are currently trying to do, obviously the hatred is justified.


I was wondering when the hell you were gonna show up around here. I had a stop watch with me here.

Adapt or Die
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#219 - 2012-06-26 15:08:35 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Lilan Kahn wrote:
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%


The ISK loss is reduced, but I'm not so sure the risk is any less. With fewer available Hulk targets the suicide gankers are hitting Covetors and Retrievers, both easier targets. (Just try tanking a Retriever. I dare ya. Blink)

Already done.


yea and you need what 2 hours to cover the loss of a covertor?
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#220 - 2012-06-26 15:18:01 UTC
Lilan Kahn wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Lilan Kahn wrote:
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%


The ISK loss is reduced, but I'm not so sure the risk is any less. With fewer available Hulk targets the suicide gankers are hitting Covetors and Retrievers, both easier targets. (Just try tanking a Retriever. I dare ya. Blink)

Already done.


yea and you need what 2 hours to cover the loss of a covertor?


But the risk isn't reduced by 98%, perhaps the cost of recovery. P

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey