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Petition to CCP to dissolve the ISD team

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Prandax Xeon
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#181 - 2012-06-26 15:02:25 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
8 Stupid Arguments That Internet Debates Always Devolve Into

#8. Who Has Less of a Life
#7. Who Is More Mature
#6. Who Can't Be Objective
#5. Who Is "Bringing Politics into It"
#4. Who Changed the Subject
#3. Freedom of Speech
#2. The Purpose of the Thread
#1. Emotion Contests

I think we've covered most of the bases... Anyone want to volunteer to represent #8 and #5?




You sir have no life, except to make lists. At least that's what the Democrats' said.

How is a Wyvern like an Ibis?  Neither have a drone bay!  
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#182 - 2012-06-26 15:02:53 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

I'm not playing to your strawman, Jade.


Then why do you expect me to play into yours?


No you!

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#183 - 2012-06-26 15:05:23 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:

I'm not playing to your strawman, Jade.


Then why do you expect me to play into yours?

This is now complete lunacy.

Your position is that this helps large alliances, yet you call my question on whether you think it helps them or not a strawman argument?

Just answer the question.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#184 - 2012-06-26 15:07:39 UTC
Of course, we all know he can't because there's no logic to his argument which can't be completely broken by simply asking a question that relates directly to his central tenet.

Pretty bad position to be in Jade, how are you going to try to worm out of it?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#185 - 2012-06-26 15:08:57 UTC
You told me you would defend anything you said about it and then outright refuse to do that a page later.

What gives?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Prandax Xeon
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#186 - 2012-06-26 15:11:47 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
You told me you would defend anything you said about it and then outright refuse to do that a page later.

What gives?



Uhhh, you know you don't get more points for more posts? You are allowed to put more than 1 paragraph per post.

How is a Wyvern like an Ibis?  Neither have a drone bay!  
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#187 - 2012-06-26 15:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Khanh'rhh wrote:
What gives?


Well mainly I'm waiting for you to answer my question. Until we can get past the first line of your post there isn't much further to talk about.

"Well I'm hardly likely to stop selectively quoting your posts while you are claiming that a screenshot from the live server 1.1 defensive ally fee for escalation is part of a "nonsense" now am I? We need to get some consensus on the first line before its possible to continue. So tell me, do you agree that the 52nd ally in a defensive coalition (even though that coalition is still 1/20th the size of the aggressor) should cost around $300,000 dollars in ISK equivilent?

Because if we can get some agreement on we can move onto some of the rest of your points."

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#188 - 2012-06-26 15:23:43 UTC
poor little baby, being forced to act older than 14 years old on the forums. boohoo.. boohoo

HTFU and STFU.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#189 - 2012-06-26 15:25:54 UTC
It's a strawman Jade, and a badly positioned one at that. I could do the playground thing of "I asked first" (and by the way, I don't mean today, but I have asked this consistently since your first posts on it and you have always ignored it) but I'll move on.

Your example is particular to your war, and your war under the 1.1 system, and to answer it we have to look at EVERYONES war and not just yours.

You claim the 1.1 change "is to help large alliances" and to make this statement you need to show how it benefits large alliances more than small ones. So, I will restate the question in parts.

1) Under 1.0 was a small or large alliance best placed to work with dogpiled aggressors?
2) Under 1.1 and given the cost per ally is constant for all defending corp sizes, for n defenders who is best able to deal with that size of aggressor, a large or small alliance? For n+1 who is best able to deal with that size of defending ally, a large or small alliance?

You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#190 - 2012-06-26 15:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
By the way, the answer to 1) and 2) is "large alliances"

Large alliances were largely immune to whether the defenders were 10 or 100, small alliances were not.

You keep ignoring this so I will just keep re-stating it.

Bonus question: for n+1 to whom is the +1 more of a factor, to a small alliance or a large alliance?

Oh hey look it's small alliances benefiting more again.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2012-06-26 15:31:42 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Balak Ragnek wrote:
-1

We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.

ISD keep up the good work


Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is (was?) part of the EvE Online experience.

Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture.


Are you seriously saying that the only thing that makes a forum interesting is the shitposting?

Seriously?

Shocked
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#192 - 2012-06-26 15:32:00 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
It's a strawman Jade, and a badly positioned one at that. I could do the playground thing of "I asked first" (and by the way, I don't mean today, but I have asked this consistently since your first posts on it and you have always ignored it) but I'll move on.

Your example is particular to your war, and your war under the 1.1 system, and to answer it we have to look at EVERYONES war and not just yours.

You claim the 1.1 change "is to help large alliances" and to make this statement you need to show how it benefits large alliances more than small ones. So, I will restate the question in parts.

1) Under 1.0 was a small or large alliance best placed to work with dogpiled aggressors?
2) Under 1.1 and given the cost per ally is constant for all defending corp sizes, for n defenders who is best able to deal with that size of aggressor, a large or small alliance? For n+1 who is best able to deal with that size of defending ally, a large or small alliance?

You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse.


Why, from this breakdown of things one could get the impression that Jade thinks everything revolves around him! That is heresy!

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#193 - 2012-06-26 15:44:09 UTC
This got off topic a little I think. Perhaps it's time to get back on it?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
#194 - 2012-06-26 15:49:14 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
This got off topic a little I think. Perhaps it's time to get back on it?

thats what she said?
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#195 - 2012-06-26 15:55:59 UTC
Din'stalor Alaric wrote:


I took the liberty of highlighting and underlining the part of your spluge of rubbish which i found most interesting.
Now, since its page 8 and no one has said it, Can i haz your stuff?


Actually, I already took care of this:

Ghost Xray wrote:


I enjoy watching the nerdrage and the fists of [EvE] God crushing every malcontents soul.

This isn't a democracy. This is a dictatorship. You don't get to vote by committee how things are to be run around here. If you quit because of this, then I'll give you the proper goodbye salute o7 and say "about your stuff, yeah, you know what I want".

Get out old forum sperglings.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#196 - 2012-06-26 15:56:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Delen Ormand wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Balak Ragnek wrote:
-1

We need more ISD members on this forum with more robust deletions and threads locked. The forums are garbage and I'm bored of having to wade through the junk and drivel spouted by so many people in order to get to the useful info.

ISD keep up the good work


Some people love the EvE Online forums, it is (was?) part of the EvE Online experience.

Transforming the forums in some type "blizzard style" forum is a very bad choice, it's boring, bland and goes against the EvE Online culture.


Are you seriously saying that the only thing that makes a forum interesting is the shitposting?

Seriously?

Shocked


welp, when the entire forum is as compartmentalized as EVE-O the only thing you can do in GD is make posts with no approved home or what we generally see here, meta-gaming, theory-crafting and general banter.

lets not even go into what the outside perception of the title "general discussion" is
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#197 - 2012-06-26 16:01:23 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse.


Clearly large alliances were worse off in 1.0 than 1.1. I'm not really sure what point you are making.


The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#198 - 2012-06-26 16:04:21 UTC
Unfortunately I didn't actually see what happened, but it sounds like a thread was posted, replies were made that devolved into trolling, and the entire thread was locked wholesale without the OP getting an answer. Then a repeating feedback loop was created as subsequent threads were made to get that answer and of course, threads were locked for duplication and/or discussing moderation (first thread locked, continued BZZT! discussing moderation, etc.)

What probably should have happened was the moderators should have taken the time to remove or edit the offensive posts and make a post reminding people to politely stay on topic. Afterwards if the thread continued on course it could be locked wholesale and the forum users would not have much of a leg to stand on if they opposed the action.

I also feel there is a language barrier issue and the 'personal attack' angle of locking or editing posts is, quite frankly, used too liberally. Combined with discussing forum moderation, it seems to be quite an effective way to curb any open criticism whatsoever, which I feel is a bad precedent to set.

Having individuals file petitions which in all likelihood will be ignored individually rather than having a community discussion is alot like Walmart being able to fight discrimination cases on a case by case basis rather than a class action basis. The results are the same, anyway....but that is purely my opinion on the matter.
Atrocitus Parallax
Doomheim
#199 - 2012-06-26 16:08:40 UTC
"Our goal is to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community on our forums and we are constantly working towards this goal - even though we sometimes have to work a little harder"

I appreciate your goal but warm and friendly and anonymous internet forums are two things that rarely coincide. Perhaps if we were all forced to post with our highest skilled characters it might improve slightly.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#200 - 2012-06-26 16:08:46 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
You're claiming this was to help large alliances yet the question you are refusing to answer is whether large or small alliances had it worse to begin with, which is laughably obtuse.


Clearly large alliances were worse off in 1.0 than 1.1. I'm not really sure what point you are making.




But how were they worse off? It's easy to just say "Oh, well they were worse off." without having to back anything up.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]