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When does all the ganking make mining worth it?
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Pipa Porto
#161 - 2012-06-26 08:30:01 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:
you cant even put a bounty on them because 1) you cant afford even to spare 1 million, 2) they will just cash it in for themselves on an alt anyway.

i think every time i have been ganked it was two people, all with more SP, probably the same person playing 2 accounts to gank 1 newbie. 2 out of 3 times i was unarmed, unable to fight back.

i dont know why i didnt realise this during my trial period. i wish i had noticed sooner.

maybe they should just allow griefing in the starter systems so people know what they are in for.


So? There are plenty of ways to avoid ganks or defend yourself from them (hint: they have two people. You could have 3)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-06-26 08:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Reech Yvormes
so you want me to share my 2 mill an hour with 2 other people? some kind of body guards. in a "high security" system?

funny.

the best edit: maybe not the best, but the easiest, way to avoid this kind of grief is to cancel sub. cry a bit on forums. and close this book.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#163 - 2012-06-26 08:43:58 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:
merin you were saying high sec is for tutorial players.


When I say "tutorial" I don't mean just the first few hours in the official tutorial, I mean it in the general sense of "learning to play the game". You know, flying level 2-3 missions in a cruiser, mining in a T1 barge, joining your first corp, etc, everything that happens before you reach the endgame. Highsec content should be focused on low risk/low reward training to build the skills and confidence required for lowsec/0.0, which means level 4 missions/Hulk mining/etc have no place there.

And given that you're a newbie mining in a cruiser, you're exactly the kind of person who should have a place in highsec and you are not the target of my complaints.

Quote:
but high sec is also for -10 security players too, to just fly around ganking newbies at will and sending troll mails afterwards like "good fight"?


I agree that in an ideal world, suicide ganking would be a lot more difficult. However, as long as there are highsec Hulk pilots and level 4 missions, I strongly oppose anything that would reduce the frequency of suicide ganks.

======================================================================

Itis Zhellin wrote:
As a new player I have a hard time to understand your point of view. How the fuk I suppose to move into null with 2-3M SP? I can't even explore anything under 0.6 without being raped, abused and then asked to leave because I'm bad for the game.


Oh FFS, why is reading so complicated?

Newbies belong in highsec.

Hulk pilots do not belong in highsec.

Hulk pilots are not newbies.

If you're a newbie who is building the skills/game knowledge/etc to succeed in lowsec/0.0, I have no problem with you being in highsec. What I hate is the fact that highsec is a viable long-term plan for experienced players who CAN succeed in lowsec/0.0.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#164 - 2012-06-26 08:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Victoria Sin wrote:
The only simple thing here is you. High sec is not "for newbies". It's for everyone and anyone. The idea that null sec is the end game is just rubbish. It's a different "lifestyle" in the sandbox, that's all.


Ever hear of this place called lowsec?

(Of course you haven't, since highsec pays better with minimal risk.)


Alaya Carrier wrote:
Flying an Hulk is not a privilege for the 2003 player with 150M SP. It takes all of 57 days to fly an Hulk.

A below 2 months old character is CERTAINLY not a newbie! Oh wait.


It's only 57 days if you already know everything about EVE. If you're an average new player, you don't have a focused skill plan which goes immediately to a single specific ship or an alt ready to buy it for you the moment you finish the skills. A real new player is going to try different things, invest in random skills, spend time saving up for a Hulk, etc. By the time they have the ability to fly a Hulk, they aren't a newbie anymore.


Veronica Kerrigan wrote:
Mining is not a bad thing. Without mining, there would not be an economy. They do what they do so we can do what we do. If they want to get paid poorly for something extremely boring, so be it, but the second you get rid of highsec mining, it's going to make PvP too expensive to be feasible for someone who only missions occasionally, and forces THEM into highsec.


That makes no sense at all. If highsec mining goes away, mineral prices might rise, but then so does the profit in each ship ransom, module drop, etc. All that happens is the numbers on both sides of the profit/loss balance go up, and the miners who aren't worthless carebears get rich mining in lowsec/0.0 where they belong.

And, as my initial question suggests, once mineral prices get high enough, more non-miners will be willing to suffer the horrible boredom of mining (in lowsec/0.0, of course). Mining income will finally be given to those who take risks and win, not the worthless parasites who want to sit AFK in 100% safety while ISK flows into their wallets.
pussnheels
Viziam
#165 - 2012-06-26 08:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: pussnheels
mining always been worth it If you took the time to find those grav sites or look for those deathend low sec systems that get hardly visited or even those wormholes are well worth it for a limited time just all of this takes more organisation and work
and don't mine alone , 3/4 of thefun during mining in a group are the conversations in vent or ts
i am even serious contemplating of resubbing my industrial acounts back on but RL priorities prevent me from being online at the moment maybe in a few weeks

and why all the hate for miners and industrials , i don't know sometimes i think those haters just a bunch of irrational whitetrash schmucks who themselves have no idea why or how but just copy what the biggest bully on the block does

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#166 - 2012-06-26 08:58:18 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.


You mad bro?

Show me on the bear where the nasty miner touched you.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2012-06-26 09:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Reech Yvormes
they say nowhere is safe, its right. i accept that, i get insurance right, so its not like i dont expect it.

only fly what you can afford this is right too. so i can make 2 million an hour. a few hours mining i can buy a cruiser and some guns. or something, ( i actually didnt get further than this part)

but how can you put a value on implants that shorten training time and get me to skill up faster.

that is like the most valuable thing to me. skill points, because i can do some fighting when i have got some. how do you put a value on shortening your training time by days?!

why would i not wear implants because i might lose them even in high security? i can afford them over time with ISK, i had managed to get the set myself over a long time. 100 million i saved up from when i started (had the anniversary set of +2s first) for a set of +4s to speed things up a bit. you could say i put all my eggs in one basket, or all my baskets in one egg, but i really thought i would be able to warp away in time like people said but i wasnt able to.

but there are people solely devoted to killing you and your pod in high sec. so these implants are too expensive in isk to use, but highly valuable in skill points to use.

and i couldnt insure them or anything. just poof, gone. just like my eve subscription.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#168 - 2012-06-26 09:15:17 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:
but i really thought i would be able to warp away in time like people said but i wasnt able to.


Blame CCP for their continued failure to fix the lag problems. Pods warp instantly, so if you are spamming the warp button as your ship is nearing destruction you should be in warp before your killers can even see your pod on your overview and click the target button. Unfortunately this doesn't always work, and because the logs will never show anything (blame CCP for failing to make a logging system that can spot a well known problem) you won't get more than a form letter from a GM if you petition the loss.

Of course this has absolutely nothing to do with the problem of highsec Hulk pilots and the need for them to be suicide ganked out of the game.
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#169 - 2012-06-26 09:20:40 UTC
Tenchi Sal wrote:


im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


That is stupid. Even goons love miners.

They hate stupid carebear "miners" in shiny hulks they bought with PLEX who have zero skills beyond the bare minimum to fit and fly said hulks.

Without miners, not trit, without trit, no pew pew. Even The Mittani understands this.

Which is why real miners mined during hulkaggedon and didn't get ganked. :)
Eve forums official anthem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA Real men tank hull. Fake women shield-tank Gallente.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#170 - 2012-06-26 09:23:05 UTC
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:
Which is why real miners mined during hulkaggedon and didn't get ganked. :)


This.
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#171 - 2012-06-26 09:26:46 UTC
all of a sudden this thread is a topic about hulks.

all of the first page is high sec miner hate with no mention of hulks or bought with plex in the original topic or anything of the sort?
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2012-06-26 09:27:53 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?


looks a lot like hating on everyone who mines in high sec.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#173 - 2012-06-26 09:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Merin Ryskin
Reech Yvormes wrote:
all of a sudden this thread is a topic about hulks.

all of the first page is high sec miner hate with no mention of hulks or bought with plex in the original topic or anything of the sort?


It's called "context". I posted this thread almost a month ago in the context of Hulkageddon, an event for suicide ganking highsec Hulks. I have no idea why someone decided to revive it now.

Of course even without that context, if you'd read the entire thread before posting in it, it would have been pretty obvious that I've always been talking about experienced players staying in highsec too long, not newbies in their first mining cruiser.
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-06-26 09:47:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Reech Yvormes
well i am not aiming anything i say at you personally anyway its not like you podded me heh

there have been several occasions of can flipping and i had my iteron ganked once when i tried to steal my own cargo back (yeah i know i was wrong to try it, i wasnt too worried it was an old ship and they didnt pod me)

general griefing of miners seems to be some sort of recreational sport here. hulkageddon or not.

its just trying to show the other side to the miner hate i suppose. you are totally right its an old thread and i didnt notice that it has been necro'd, dunno why i am posting really. waiting for support to reply.
Blade N'Mare
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#175 - 2012-06-26 09:52:04 UTC
The whole ganking thing is an exersize in epeen. "look at me! I can blow up an unarmed mining barge! I am leet PVPer!"


If you want to show everyone you have balls, shoot at something that shoots back.

If people what to mine in hisec, and I will emphasize people as opposed tobots, how does this destroy PVP for anyone else? Sure, at the moment mineral prices are slanted towards hisec ores. Big deal. Yes, I could make more isk if null ores were worth more.So what?


Is this going to destroy the fabric of EVE and make as dust everything we hold dear? Of course not. Grow the **** up.


Have a bit of honesty people. If you need to gank casual players in paper-mache indy vessels to stroke your most likely sad and pathetic real life, fine. If you are killing miners to undertake some market manipulation, go ahead. Its a sandbox, and within the EULA, you can do as you like.


At least have the stones to come clean about why. Confession will make your soul pure, and will take a load or remorse off your burdened minds :)

And it will stop the forums getting choked with 20 page ragethreads
filled with drivel.

"Light a candle for the Sinners.  Set the World on Fire."
Kalicor Lightwind
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#176 - 2012-06-26 10:03:30 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Mining and ship production can be handled by those in nullsec or even lowsec. Highsec miners have absolutely nothing to offer. If fewer ships entered the game as a result of carebears' destruction, who cares? I sure don't.


This.

The solution to highsec mining is to move ALL significant mineral resources into lowsec and/or 0.0, leaving highsec with nothing significant enough to allow any ship larger than a T1-fitted mining cruiser to make decent income. The mineral supply remains the same, except now if you want zero risk you also get zero reward.


Please fix industrials, mining barges, and hulks so that they don't combine all of the properties of: worthless, bulky, slow, and defenseless and get alphaed in one hit, you'd find more people mining in low/null
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-06-26 10:24:52 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.


Your post is full of ****. It's all your opinion, fine. But it's only that.

High sec is not the tutorial area and it never was. Since the beginning it was valid to play and stay in high sec only. Heck, some people even never leave their station in high sec and make more money than the average miner! Why are they not blamed for being bad for the game?

I currently live in high sec for my very own reasons. I don't mine, but I mind my own business. Just like a lot of players do. There is a graph that shows that 55% of the survey participants like to play solo mostly/always. Which means moving to 0.0 is not really an option for these players.

What gives you the right of forcing your opinion on how the game should be played onto other people? A lot of people do not want to leave high-sec and EVE has always been fine with that. Hulkageddon and Piñata kills have shown that high-sec is not totally save. Working as intended. There should be no gank-free area but there is not. Why should all be forced to low sec or 0.0 now?
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2012-06-26 10:31:03 UTC
Like there are good pvp'ers and ****** pvp'ers, there are also good miners and ****** miners. This is fact.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#179 - 2012-06-26 10:33:31 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

When I say "tutorial" I don't mean just the first few hours in the official tutorial, I mean it in the general sense of "learning to play the game". You know, flying level 2-3 missions in a cruiser, mining in a T1 barge, joining your first corp, etc, everything that happens before you reach the endgame. Highsec content should be focused on low risk/low reward training to build the skills and confidence required for lowsec/0.0, which means level 4 missions/Hulk mining/etc have no place there.


Why should EvE be like WoW, with a canned "end game"? This is extremely wrong.
EvE is EvE because of its entirety not because you decide who is MEANT to go here or there and at what point of their life.


Merin Ryskin wrote:

Hulk pilots do not belong in highsec.

Hulk pilots are not newbies.[/b]

Blinders again. Hulks can fly in hi sec, therefore they belong also to hi sec.
Hulk pilots can be 2 months old they hardly quality as "not newbies". Plus they had to train with the wrong stats and skills that make them completely unable to fight well, so they will need more months and a remap just to leave newbiedom.


[quote=Merin Ryskin]
If you're a newbie who is building the skills/game knowledge/etc to succeed in lowsec/0.0, I have no problem with you being in highsec. What I hate is the fact that highsec is a viable long-term plan for experienced players who CAN succeed in lowsec/0.0.


What's the problem. They CAN succeed in 0.0 but don't care to. Are you the server police to decide how people should pay their subscription for?
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#180 - 2012-06-26 10:35:58 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

It's only 57 days if you already know everything about EVE. If you're an average new player, you don't have a focused skill plan which goes immediately to a single specific ship or an alt ready to buy it for you the moment you finish the skills. A real new player is going to try different things, invest in random skills, spend time saving up for a Hulk, etc. By the time they have the ability to fly a Hulk, they aren't a newbie anymore.


And you know everything about new players, eh? When I started, the ISDs in rookie chat teached people to go mining and even provided links with EvEMon plans to skill up to Hulk fast.
Surprising, eh?