EVE General Discussion

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The initial issue was overreaching moderation of things that are well within the historical norms of the Forums along with stupendously unevenly applied rules and locks, and finally there's the matter of seemingly posting rationales at random. The last one is by far the least important.

I have nothing but respect for the Star team. You guys do a lot of good with the IG channels. The CCL team is the problem and they're a problem because they're a bad idea in the first place. The forums were healthiest when mods like Zymurgist used a light hand and good humor to deal with the forums.

I appreciate you making a statement. Forgive me if I cant take what you have said blindly. While I believe you are monitored by employees of CCP I dont believe its nearly has involved has it should be. Their have been problems on going since the CCL started and it is time that CCP address them and tell us if they are problems in their eyes or not.

I love everybut ISD has done over the years. Up until the CCL and the few bad eggs with the game evens awhile back I had nothing bad to say about the organization. We just want a more transparent and involved selection process for the moderators and for the guidelines they moderate by to be published by CCP so we know what they want out of the forums and the moderators have something that can keep them consistent with their moderation.

So, thank you. But, I think this isn't going to settle down till we have a Dev come in, or at the very least the CSM promise to look into it.



Regards,
Jason Marshall


Also:

These two sentences together are what worry me the most when it comes to the CCL. Eve players are capable of amazing things both amazingly good and amazingly bad.


I get that you contribute your time for the other parts of ISD. But in reality forum mods should be people that are forum regulars, people who are reading through the forums like they would on any day or evening the difference being they get to lock and warn posts instead of just reporting them.

+1

T...

Heavy handed with the perma ban hammers dont you think ?

T..

Our issue isnt with one person its with the CCL has a whole. Its broken and we need to fix it now before it grows into the system any further.


- Jason Marshall

And forgive us for moving to one of the only methods we have ever seen work at getting CCP to respond to an issue.

No, it's fine. I intentionally tried to touch this off (and succeeded reasonably well).

CCP has a very long history of never listening to its players until something loud happens. You only have to go as far back as this Fanfest when people told CCP "Hey, if you make PC kills drop LP for their cargo, someone's going to manipulate the market for incredible profit" to see evidence of this at work.

If it were just one bad egg in the CCL team, a quiet bunch of petitions might have worked, but the whole CCL idea is rotten from the core. Simply raising your hand does not give you the experience and light touch needed to moderate a forum like this.

We have always ragged on CCP. Always called CCP incompetent. And we almost mean it sometimes, but it's said out of love and with a hope that CCP will occasionally learn from their mistakes and improve. Editing and locking threads that simply express mild displeasure or hints of dissent is beyond the pale of the norms on these forums.

You say you've been watching this all day long. This has been going on for far longer, today just happens to be the day it boiled over. The heavy handed moderation has been going on since I noticed the ISDs moderating. Maybe they have rules about what they can and can't say, but not being able or willing to jump into a thread that's going haywire and calm it down without resorting to editing posts or locking threads means not being able to manage a forum of this size. Period.

STAR has a very, very different community to work with and has a much more controlled environment to work in. That's why they work so well (though I'd love to see their training budget improved). In the Rookie/Help channels, heavy handed moderation is just fine because everybody on the same page of Helping/Getting help. The forums are different.

Basically, unless CCP is willing to put in the effort to train CCLs on social grace and tact under fire (good luck), the CCL program will cause this type of thing again, and again, and so on and so forth.

-RubyPorto

I am all for taming this forum till it becomes a regular MMO forum and not a crazy land where obsessed psychos explode all their repression and immature rants because they know that there will never be *consequences* for their actions.

In the other forums this is easily accomplished by banning all the offenders and letting them cool off.

So keep the good work, and make the EvE forums a place where to go and get information, not "trololol" and "ship toasting".

I am soooo disappointed. i thought i'd see a petition. a raging kid is not a petition...

I really hope CCP doesn't listen to you. The EvE-O forums have always been better than most because of the open discussion that was possible. Excessive moderation and bans have a chilling effect on those sorts of (spectacularly productive, thoug not too polite) discussions.


So I guess this should be banned?

That's certainly shiptoasting and trolling.