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Cybernetics V, when is it worth it?
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Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#1 - 2012-06-20 14:47:53 UTC
I'm currently working with Cybernetics IV
In my high-sec clone I have full +4 implants and for the skillwires, I use the middle-tier versions of them.


When do you think it is worth it to train up for Cybernetics V?

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#2 - 2012-06-20 16:28:34 UTC
Umm. When you need it, basically. If you want +5s, get it. If you want pirate implants, get it. If you want top-notch skill hardwirings, get it. And if you're in a high sec clone and you won't be losing it anytime soon, you might as well push that direction sooner than later.
Cap James Tkirk
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-06-20 16:34:09 UTC
+5 vs +4 give a slight bonus to training but only get the +5 in your attribute mains example per/will if your doing gunnery/SPC skills and add to that once you do a remap for lets say intel/mem etc till u have all them
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-06-20 17:24:41 UTC
IMHO mindlinks or pirate or supercapital implants are the only things worth training cybering V for. The difference between +5 and +4 skill implants is so miniscule I don't find it worth the time for. Someone with more interest in the topic could tell you how many years does it take for the difference to pay off the 30 days or so.
Greg Valanti
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-06-20 18:02:33 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
IMHO mindlinks or pirate or supercapital implants are the only things worth training cybering V for. The difference between +5 and +4 skill implants is so miniscule I don't find it worth the time for. Someone with more interest in the topic could tell you how many years does it take for the difference to pay off the 30 days or so.


According to EVEMON, based on my current plan the difference between +4s and +5s is 17 days saved over 365 days worth of training.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-06-21 03:52:45 UTC
I would say definitely train it to 5. It is required if you want a complete slave or crystal set and IMO + 5 implants are worth it unless you are doing PVP in nullsec where you might be podded. Then it just depends on your budget.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-06-22 01:30:28 UTC
Have it on 2 alts, but not my main. One alt is for fleet links, the other is for research. They both need it. Main could probably use it since he's been a hi sec carebear for a while, +5s would be a nice boost.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#8 - 2012-06-22 01:43:26 UTC
I trained it on an alt account. Then that main started pvp almost immediatly. I have never ever used any +5 implants, because I pvp in a fairly reckless fashion. Use the implants if you can afford the loss. (Seriously, I could afford the loss, I just choose not to)

Short version: If you won't use the implants, don't train the skill.
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
#9 - 2012-06-22 11:42:33 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
I'm currently working with Cybernetics IV
In my high-sec clone I have full +4 implants and for the skillwires, I use the middle-tier versions of them.


When do you think it is worth it to train up for Cybernetics V?


When you can make good use of the implants, and by that I mean implants other than +5 learning ones. Its the faction Omegas, and 6% hardwires that really make it worthwhile, not learning implants.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2012-06-23 00:10:38 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
I'm currently working with Cybernetics IV
In my high-sec clone I have full +4 implants and for the skillwires, I use the middle-tier versions of them.


When do you think it is worth it to train up for Cybernetics V?


As soon as you can afford the implants that require it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#11 - 2012-06-23 04:05:43 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
IMHO mindlinks or pirate or supercapital implants are the only things worth training cybering V for. The difference between +5 and +4 skill implants is so miniscule I don't find it worth the time for. Someone with more interest in the topic could tell you how many years does it take for the difference to pay off the 30 days or so.


100*( 1 - (p+s/2+6)/(p+s/2+7.5)) percent reduction in total training time, where p is the skill's primary attribute before implants (but after your map) and s is the secondary attribute.

Assuming you're on a flexible remap rather than the more min/max optimal remap your base secondary will usually be 17 and your base primary will usually be 24 for the vast majority of things you're training. So p+s/2 will be 32.5 for most of your skills. Plug that in and you're seeing a typical time savings of a bit under 4%. So you'll have saved 30 days in 750 days, i.e. using 5s instead of 4s will negate the time sink of Cybernetics 5 in about two years of solid training.

Obviously the return on investment for an optimized remap is lower (3.3% instead of 3.8%) with a corresponding increase in the length of time it "pays for itself" as it were.

Short version: meh, don't worry 'bout it too much.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#12 - 2012-06-23 08:34:20 UTC
Greg Valanti wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
IMHO mindlinks or pirate or supercapital implants are the only things worth training cybering V for. The difference between +5 and +4 skill implants is so miniscule I don't find it worth the time for. Someone with more interest in the topic could tell you how many years does it take for the difference to pay off the 30 days or so.


According to EVEMON, based on my current plan the difference between +4s and +5s is 17 days saved over 365 days worth of training.


In other words; If you have +5 implants, in a year you can get a rank 3 skill trained to level 5 starting from scratch compared to if you only had +4 implants. Worth it? You be the judge of that.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Yoshite McLulzypants
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-24 03:51:18 UTC
Rank 4 if you are specced for it. Totally worth it, that's like a free surgical strike 5 or torpedoes 5 every year. Not to mention all the boss hardwirings.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#14 - 2012-06-24 08:44:11 UTC
Yoshite McLulzypants wrote:
Rank 4 if you are specced for it.


I calculated it like this:

1,5 skill points per minute (1 from primary, 0,5 from secondary attribute)

1,5 * 60 (minutes per hour) * 24 (hours per day) * 30 (days per month) * 12 (months per year)

-> 777600 skill points per year

That's about equal to what a rank 3 skill costs in skill points (768000).

Yoshite McLulzypants wrote:
Not to mention all the boss hardwirings.


Indeed.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Yoshite McLulzypants
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-06-25 00:22:53 UTC
I stand corrected, I had not done the math, was just eyeballing what I could train in "17 days saved" on my current spec.
Abditus Cularius
Clancularius Industries
#16 - 2012-06-26 06:21:52 UTC
The extra +1 per stat is handy, but the skill hardwiring and pirate sets are where cyber 5 really pays for itself.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#17 - 2012-06-26 15:50:33 UTC
The answer is ASAP.
Srioghal moDhream
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-06-26 18:09:18 UTC
How does cyber V take you 30 days? With an int/mem spec and +3's it takes 12.5 -13 days to get cyber 5.

Each lvl of attribute implant will net you 788k a year (365 days).

So +1's will net you 788k over none
+2's 1.577m
+3's 2.365m
+4's 3.154m
+5's 3.942m

cybernetics to 5 costs 768k.

so an upgrade from 4's will make up the cost in less than a year.

and then every year after that it is gravy.