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Petition to CCP to dissolve the ISD team

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Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#21 - 2012-06-26 03:30:05 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Information Agent wrote:
Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.

ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.

Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.

The ISDs in the channels (who mostly are awesome and very helpful in keeping the peace) are not the same ones from the forums. In fact, IIRC they can't even moderate the forums.



They are however, all governed by the same rules and are answerable to CCP for their actions. This is why they will not communicate with players about their moderation duties. It is for CCP to decide if any action taken by a member of its staff, voluntary or otherwise, is appropriate.

Of course. It woudl still be nice if an effort was made to reach out (on both sides) and have a nice chat. At least learning a little more than [insert one liner on lock].
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#22 - 2012-06-26 03:32:13 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Information Agent wrote:
Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.

ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.

Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.

The ISDs in the channels (who mostly are awesome and very helpful in keeping the peace) are not the same ones from the forums. In fact, IIRC they can't even moderate the forums.



They are however, all governed by the same rules and are answerable to CCP for their actions. This is why they will not communicate with players about their moderation duties. It is for CCP to decide if any action taken by a member of its staff, voluntary or otherwise, is appropriate.


is that before or after a CCP dev gives someone **** for an off topic post that was made off topic by ISD bungling the title?

sorry but that doesn't fly, CCP will step in only when enough people rattle their cage over the issue, petitions will be queued for weeks, more bad decisions will be made by people who don't understand what's being posted and more subscribers will leave in protest.
Then when someone in accounting notices a problem somebody will step in.
That's where the "forum guard" comes into play, we try to minimize the damage from CCPs bad decisions by alerting them to these issues in a loud, unruly and direct fashion.

We are the oil
Jason Marshall
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-06-26 03:32:57 UTC
Information Agent wrote:
Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.

ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.

Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.


No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.

We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.

Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#24 - 2012-06-26 03:36:16 UTC
Cerebral Wolf wrote:
How can you create a petition and get players to sign and agree to it if you have to do it in a personal email?....

The forum makes much more sense, funny how the rules how are set up so thats not possible though.


Actually I believe the Assembly Hall section of the forums would suffice for that particular task

Assembly Hall

And a quote from the Sticky for that section


CCP Spitfire wrote:

In this forum, any EVE player can raise an issue for debate.

The best and most supported of these issue threads are picked up by the CSM for debate. The issues that pass debate are bought to CCP, and if CCP consents, the issues get implemented into the game.

How it works:
In order to raise an issue, simply create a new thread. In the title write a brief description and in the body, give as many details about your idea as possible. Any person replying to the thread can check a box to show support for the issue, which provides at-a-glance on the thread listing how supported an idea is. If a CSM member wants to raise an issue in a meeting, they are only allowed to select issues arising from threads in the Assembly hall, and only threads that are at least a week old.


Hopefully that helps.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#25 - 2012-06-26 03:37:47 UTC
Information Agent wrote:
Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.

ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.

Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.


The ISDs in Rookie and Help chats are great (I mean, it's great that they volunteer, and their hearts are in the right place, they're not actually that good at giving good advice that I've seen).

The CCL ISDs who moderate the forums are the problem.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#26 - 2012-06-26 03:39:10 UTC
Jason Marshall wrote:
Information Agent wrote:
Blame those 'power mad players' for the crap that everyone has to endure, don't blame the volenteers who try to help people for free. To be honest, the playerbase/forum warriors of this game need a good clip around the ear and told to grow the heck up, half these a-holes are likely in their 30-40's, about time they acted it tbqh.

ISD guys, as a man helping a much younger relative into EVE I've seen you guys in the rookie channel, always helpful, always trying to ease new people into this harsh game with friendly encouragement, I can do little else but applaud you for your dedication and enthusiasm for this game and its growing community.

Dont let the asshats get you down, one day, their parents will kick them out and then they'll find being on the streets at the tender age of 37 and being led down a dark alley by 'shirley the burly moustache atired ungentleman' isn't as fun as it sounds and crying 'DERP' will only confuse and enrage shirley into a 'no foreplay' frenzy.


No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.

We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.

Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.



You lack 99.9% of the facts required to hold a proper discussion on this subject and are currently running on rumour or bias. Here is a useful link regarding the ISD and their actions.

Volunteer Program

Enjoy!

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
#27 - 2012-06-26 03:39:45 UTC
Jason Marshall wrote:

No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.

We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.

Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.


Well, theres the thing, I'm almost 100% positive that both the ISD forum mods and the in game help guys are all bound to the same rules and codes of conduct. I always try to lean towards 'they did it because they wanted to help' since theres no monetry or physical reward involved, but I concour that I could be wrong about that for maybe a few that are just 'bad apples' and they hide it.

To be honest, additional 'power' in a forum doesnt sound like power to me, sounds like unpaid work. This sort of situation is a complicated one, but hopefully someone in the know will be able to put the whole thing straight.
Jason Marshall
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-06-26 03:43:25 UTC
Information Agent wrote:
Jason Marshall wrote:

No you cant say that. The ISD Forum moderators could be 6 month old power hungry twats. But volunteering for additional power around the forums doesn't seem very selfless to me.

We aren't mad that they are moderating we are mad because its so arbitrary and their isn't a clear guide they are following.

Again we cant be sure they all just arent really good at writing applications. Doesnt mean they know **** about eve or the community.


Well, theres the thing, I'm almost 100% positive that both the ISD forum mods and the in game help guys are all bound to the same rules and codes of conduct. I always try to lean towards 'they did it because they wanted to help' since theres no monetry or physical reward involved, but I concour that I could be wrong about that for maybe a few that are just 'bad apples' and they hide it.

To be honest, additional 'power' in a forum doesnt sound like power to me, sounds like unpaid work. This sort of situation is a complicated one, but hopefully someone in the know will be able to put the whole thing straight.


You don't seem to understand how petty some people can be and how widley varied the defenition of power can be.

Its not work. At all. They arent bound to spend x number of hours moderating the forums.

The best moderation for a community like eve would be a mix of active dev and GMs combined with 4-5 veteran eve players in every major timezone who are browsing the forums anyways. That way its not working for free and they never feel like they are entitled to anything for it. They are just browsing and participating in the community like they would anyother night. But now instead of hitting "report" on a post or thread they think breaks the rules they lock it and move on.
Joe Everyguy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-06-26 03:58:19 UTC
Morganta wrote:


-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature-


I am now marking out for Morganta.

Satisfied customers of Joe's House of Snark and Shitpost Emporium
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#30 - 2012-06-26 04:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Joe Everyguy wrote:
Morganta wrote:


-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature-


I am now marking out for Morganta.


oh I'm sure I'm toast, but the difference is I won't be back in 2 weeks

and I don't make unsub threats, anyone who knows me can attest to that.
I said it, I did it and the future is up to CCP, but I'm a terribly lazy **** who will not be arsed to click the button more than once in a months time. so I'll be gone at least till August, probably longer since CCP doesn't care for my business anyhow

besides everyone is bugging me to play more dayz
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#31 - 2012-06-26 04:23:28 UTC
How IS this not locked lol

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Quaaid
Phoenix Foundry
#32 - 2012-06-26 04:29:39 UTC
I support this, that team has been way too liberal with their moderation.

+1 for Topic and Transparency (whatever the outlet)
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#33 - 2012-06-26 04:47:10 UTC
Flooding the forums with useless threads is effective? Effective at getting people banned, maybe.

Did this really start because of a thread about shirt tucking options?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-06-26 04:57:21 UTC
Ive never seen a useful post from an ISD member and have seen a lot of terrible ones.
recently they have been locking char trade threads left right and center for completely arbitrary reasons.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#35 - 2012-06-26 05:13:37 UTC
What I sent to CCP on the topic...

Quote:
I gotta say this recruitment drive is hauling a poor crop indeed. Check out this one:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts=125679=unread

No empathy - check.
No effort at all to help - check.
Immediately close the user's thread without any chance for the community to help - check.
Link the customer to an already closed thread - check.

Forums are to communicate and to lessen the burden of support - basically the cost of it. If you empower a group of drones who fail to understand that they at some level need to represent your company as well as mindlessly apply "rules" then you are doing yourself a great disservice.

Why you even let them say "rules" is beyond me. Forum moderation is 100% subjective and dependent on infinite combinations of context. Make your people say "guidelines". Semantically the same thing, provides infinite wriggle room and is not as confrontational to the customer.

Who is educating your moderators?

Moderators should be polite, but firm. Most importantly they should give the customer a feeling they appreciate their position, even if they privately could not care less.

I have no idea where you are getting these people, but Gods you are creating a miserable time for yourself down the track.
Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#36 - 2012-06-26 05:44:44 UTC
Guys we need to calm down and stop posting, but if they still haras us in future by blocking good therads we smash them, by some protest act etc, this is out of conrol so far, but we need calm down, we see what happens in next days.
San Severina
One Point 0
#37 - 2012-06-26 07:12:14 UTC
+1
Ghost Xray
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-06-26 07:32:49 UTC
Morganta wrote:
it is a failed experiment.
you are losing more money than you are saving by continuing to let -----Edit-----

Shameful display of customer service
I strongly recommend you rectify the situation before they do any more damage to your company

and I mean the forum division, I have no issues with ISDs ingame

Post edited
Please file a petition if you have an issue with the moderators.

-I did, I unsubbed and named the ISD as a reason, that will go up the chain quicker than the 2 month petition line-

-I also took the liberty of stripping your sig from my post as you are not worthy of having an official signature-


As a member of the community, let me just say that your opinion means a whole lot to us. I know you have a choice in **** poasting, and I appreciate your choosing EvE-O to do it in. Please exercise caution when standing up, as the contents of your of your head may shifted and have definitely been damaged.

Oh, and while some jest that the forums is where the game is, you seem to think it actually does exist here. LONG LIVE THE FORUM WARRIORS!!!
Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#39 - 2012-06-26 07:37:37 UTC
Free speech? In my Eve? **** or GTFO!
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
ISD Alliance
#40 - 2012-06-26 07:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Athechu
Greetings, I’m Athechu a Commander (Assistant Team Lead) of ISD:STAR (In-game ISD). I am currently also helping out the ISD:CCL with the forums but I focus mainly on the EVE New Citizens Q&A section of the forums.

First please visit the ISD Wiki page and understand the differences of the teams. It will explain a lot more of what the teams within the ISD do. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISD

Reading through this thread and watching I see that that both sides have made mistakes. Posters that delibertly started to create spam/troll/argue threads in the forum and ISD members for not explaining which rules have been broken. Now the focus has been shifted to the ISD as being some kind of supreme evil overlords. We are players of the same game as you and we enjoy it like you. The difference is that we have decided to contribute our time to the community that makes EVE so great.

CCP’s Internal Affairs team watches over not only the ISD accounts but our player account(s) as well. If an individual of the ISD is found abusing their volunteer position CCP will take the appropriate actions. No ISD team has the ability to ban anyone from any server, or forum. But just like you we do have the ability to report problems to the appropriate people using the same methods. CCP internal teams handle all of that. If you have a reasonable suspicion that an ISD member is abusing his/her position in some way in the game, you can contact Internal Affairs directly by sending an e-mail to internalaffairs@ccpgames.com or file a petition using the methods below (only choose one method).

In game: Press F12, click create new petition, Group: Rules and Policies, Category: Game Masters & ISD

Out of game: https://support.eveonline.com/Pages/Petitions/CreatePetition.aspx

Please remember to include forum links and a name of who you are reporting. This helps in insuring a timely investigation.

Fly safe!

ISD Athechu

STAR Executive

EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources

Helping Players Since 2011