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exploit vs. sloppy game mechanic design
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Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#341 - 2012-06-26 02:00:15 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:

Funny, all I've read from you amounts to "RAGH! GOONIES, banzors them all CCP! AGHIJASDLKFJAKL!!!1" really not conducive to a debate on the finer points of the issue.

You fail at debating the issue.

You do realize that yes?


Please, link me that quote cause I dont see it.




And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Masumi Do
Dust Devil Cartel
#342 - 2012-06-26 02:01:00 UTC
its a feature... lol
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#343 - 2012-06-26 02:02:09 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:


In a sandbox, rules should be absolute and not open to interpretation.


Really ? seems counter intuitive ?

meh

Tal


yea I dont see this happening... know why? If theyre absolute you have the Goonswarm internet lawyer division ripping them apart for loopholes and have this exact situation happening on a constant basic instead of every once in a while

CCP has made it quite clear that when they say "DON'T!" you don't, and trying to internet lawyer your way around it still gets you banhammered, so it is useles to even try. That, to me, seems pretty absolute, don't you think?


btw, dumbass I was talking about the hypothetical situation the guy I quoted was talking about

thats why you fail - you are reacting as if I was talking about the current system (which Im not so I figured Id explain it since youre slow)

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Shukuzen Kiraa
F4G Wild Weasel
#344 - 2012-06-26 02:02:59 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Exploit is Exploit....No matter how you color it


This ^^
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#345 - 2012-06-26 02:04:40 UTC
this actually reminds me of a funny story.

When I first came back to eve a couple of years ago I was doing some mining poop in some system and accidentally discovered that I could move items between open containers and my cargo hold anywhere on grid

the only restriction was you had to be within the max distance to open the container, but once open you could move stuff around regardless of your distance from the container.

I thought it must be me, how the hell could nobody on either sisi or TQ have not noticed this and reported it already?

but being the good little bundist that I am, I reported it and sure enough the reply was "we were unaware of this bug, thanks for reporting it"

I mean comon, how could nobody ratting, mining or pvping not notice this?
I was playing a couple days and found it and knew it was wrong


sometimes the things that CCP misses astounds me
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#346 - 2012-06-26 02:14:26 UTC
Morganta wrote:
so let me get this straight since the dev blogs show nothing

So certain people discovered an issue with the new FW mechanic on Sisi, reported it and began exploring the potential of this issue.

CCP opted to ignore this rather major issue and push FW out the door hoping that this group of players would support them in sweeping a rather glaring gameplay issue under the rug

The group of players instead decided to exploit the hell out of the issue instead of climbing into the soft comfy chair of ignorance and denial

now CCP is mad that the people who warned them this would happen made it happen so it would be exposed as the sloppy work that it is?

is this about right?
Yea, and you forgot;

CCP could have simply declared this an exploit the day they shoved it out, and no one would have dared to exploit it for fear of the banhammer. Instead they put their fingers in their ears and said loudly "La la la la I can't hear you."

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#347 - 2012-06-26 13:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
CCP should just fess up that they didn't really think that through. Players did and made lots of profit. But for the good of their game they can't let it stick. So they are going to take back allot of what the players made. Nobody did anything wrong.

Eve is supposed to be a game that is thrown out there and players are told do whatever you can to make isk/succeed.

Thats what happened. Honesty is the best policy.

They should let those who did this keep at least some of their profits for their work and to the extent they are honest about it. Maybe let them keep the first 100 billion worth and be done with it.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Htuomotssa
Registered
#348 - 2012-06-26 14:17:08 UTC
Xhaiden Ora wrote:
By your logic Americans should be patting Wall Street on the back for their "entrepreneurial spirit" instead of being pissed over the economy.


They took our jobs!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#349 - 2012-06-26 14:19:10 UTC
dey turk err jurbz!

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Mons Pubis Giganticus
Doomheim
#350 - 2012-06-26 20:02:02 UTC
you realize that it is possible to exploit sloppy design? so both are possible
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#351 - 2012-06-26 20:03:50 UTC
Mons Pubis Giganticus wrote:
you realize that it is possible to exploit sloppy design? so both are possible

Exploiting sloppy design and being an exploit (and using such exploit) are two different things.

One is perfectly acceptable from an EULA standpoint, the other is not.
Mons Pubis Giganticus
Doomheim
#352 - 2012-06-26 20:21:55 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Mons Pubis Giganticus wrote:
you realize that it is possible to exploit sloppy design? so both are possible

Exploiting sloppy design and being an exploit (and using such exploit) are two different things.

One is perfectly acceptable from an EULA standpoint, the other is not.

by definition, an exploit is an exploit. perhaps tautological statements are too complex for you.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#353 - 2012-06-26 20:25:26 UTC
It's only an exploit in the negative sense when CCP has deemed it as such. Until then, it's ~emergent gameplay~.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#354 - 2012-06-26 20:28:22 UTC
Mons Pubis Giganticus wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Mons Pubis Giganticus wrote:
you realize that it is possible to exploit sloppy design? so both are possible

Exploiting sloppy design and being an exploit (and using such exploit) are two different things.

One is perfectly acceptable from an EULA standpoint, the other is not.

by definition, an exploit is an exploit. perhaps tautological statements are too complex for you.

Exploit, in EVE, is an unintentional mechanic or bug that can be/is used to "get ahead".

However, it is still perfectly possible and legal to exploit an intentional (yet foolish) mechanic.



Perhaps words having more than one definition is too complicated for you.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#355 - 2012-06-27 18:26:59 UTC
In a true 1.0 system concorde used to react as slow as they do in 0.5 systems.
That was known and through superior use of game mechanics, things died.

When reaching true -10 status , concorde would not come aid people, only faction police.
This because the concorde trigger was the adjustment of secstat downwards, when in highsec.
Tank CEO I believe killed tons through use of superior game mechanics

Zombie Corp killed everything in Yulai using RR. Being able to tank the police turned out to be a superior use of game mechanics.


Now, CCP went out and told people to stop what they were doing in these events.
The one that did not, was banned.

For thi FW thing
It is OK for CCP to say people are not to do this again, and remove the spoils from counting dropped loot to the value of destroyed ships. The dropped loot was not supposed to be calculated.
The rest here, is mechanics working as intended and documented.
It is in no way an exploit, except, the lp for dropped loot... That is on the killmails, and should be possible to calculate.