These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Making nullsec vibrant again

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1081 - 2012-06-26 00:39:41 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Only null sec players can make null sec vibrant again. Game content is what you make of it. EVE by itself is dull and boring without player interaction. It is the players in the game that add flavor and value. Then the current null sec crop of players need to be replaced to make null vibrant again. For they are incompetent at enhancing their own fun. It is not like null sec is empty either.
Over 20,000 players in null.

/mindblown . . .

Look, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but, when the physical mechanics of a thing impede players from doing /whatever, instead of enhance the ability to do /whatever...

Don't you think that would call for /something?


Nope!

The game has been like this for what 9 years and suddenly now you have a problem with game mechanics?

Talk about mindblown! I would say the game is working as designed. But suddenly we have a class of null players that can not cope with null.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'm finding I'm coping with null just fine. I just happen to think it's ******** that it makes such economic sense to keep using hisec as the manufacturing base and shipping to nullsec.

That's not "unable to cope", that's "wanting the game to be better".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1082 - 2012-06-26 00:42:52 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
I'm not sure mudflation is the word you're looking for, though, for the most part it's probably more monetary inflation. I'm not sure about resource inflation, as we just had an estimated 40% cut in mineral supply after the drone regions were nerfed, and mudflation I think is more a case of equipment becoming worthless.


My apologies. I did not make that distinction. Thank you.

Nevertheless, L4s and the associated bounties are arguably the single largest low-risk ISK faucet in the game (no source cited as I qualified it with "arguably P). I don't necessarily think they need to be moved but if the value of items in a players Station Hangar were taxed at a rate proportional to the sec status that said goods are in, it could create a big enough sink to allow the upping of bounties in Null Sec anoms and other activities without risk of inflation.

Is it subsidizing? Yes
Is it unreasonable? No.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1083 - 2012-06-26 00:54:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Only null sec players can make null sec vibrant again. Game content is what you make of it. EVE by itself is dull and boring without player interaction. It is the players in the game that add flavor and value. Then the current null sec crop of players need to be replaced to make null vibrant again. For they are incompetent at enhancing their own fun. It is not like null sec is empty either.
Over 20,000 players in null.

/mindblown . . .

Look, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but, when the physical mechanics of a thing impede players from doing /whatever, instead of enhance the ability to do /whatever...

Don't you think that would call for /something?


Nope!

The game has been like this for what 9 years and suddenly now you have a problem with game mechanics?

Talk about mindblown! I would say the game is working as designed. But suddenly we have a class of null players that can not cope with null.

Now, I don't know about you, but I'm finding I'm coping with null just fine. I just happen to think it's ******** that it makes such economic sense to keep using hisec as the manufacturing base and shipping to nullsec.

That's not "unable to cope", that's "wanting the game to be better".



If CCP agreed with your idea of making the game better then it would have been done already a long time ago.
9 years is a long time for null space to not be vibrant.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1084 - 2012-06-26 00:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Nope!

The game has been like this for what 9 years and suddenly now you have a problem with game mechanics?

Talk about mindblown! I would say the game is working as designed. But suddenly we have a class of null players that can not cope with null.

I've lived out of a POS for basically the last 15 months with my corp in Wormhole Space. POS mechanics (and building things in POS') have sucked the whole time.

This is *NOT* about "null-sec" players who can't cope, even though you might *LIKE* it to be that.

It's about design decisions made "back in the day" that are / were cludgy at best - but worked. It's about making null sec *not* dependent on 500,000 manufacturing slots in Hi-sec (for example) when (for example) an entire *REGION'S* manufacturing capacity had to be put to *just* making fuel blocks before crucible...

The question becomes "why, if null sec is about building *empires* - does it suck at doing/supporting that goal"?

So no, it's not "suddenly" anything.


Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Center for Advanced Studies [CAS] from 2012.04.18 19:16 to this day

C'mon - wtf? Why does everyone feel that they have to have a dam forum alt? FFS - I"ve disagreed with people on the forums for 4 years...

I don't get that...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1085 - 2012-06-26 00:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarku Huhtsu
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
That’s not necessarily a true statement, corrected it should read ‘Highsec is ISK that the GSF doesn’t completely control’ most suggestions that I see promulgated by the Goons and their associates relate more to lowering the barriers to Hi Sec control than correcting any perceived imbalance in low sec.

What is this concept you speak of, "hisec control"? Who wants to control hisec?

Marconus Orion wrote:
So why do you continue to punish yourselves with living in null and be mad at those of us who choose to have fun elsewhere?

I'm having my cake and eating it too, by doing fleet fights in nullsec and doing industry/L4s in hisec. vOv

Seriously its about sphere of influence, Burn Jita, Hulkaggeddon, the Ice Interdiction, War Dec’s on small corps are all control mechanisms, they all designed to extend a the Goons sphere of influence beyond their Nul sec boundaries. All these actions impact on the players in the regions affected, now put the shoe on the other foot where players find effective methods of combating Goon tactics and the school yard bully is revealed. GSF as a collective has a Jekyll and Hyde nature, only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side as evidenced by the Goons PR machine in the forums can be described as "charming" and "convincing", the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; In the case of the GSF Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act. If the Goons want to be taken seriously they need to clean up their own act/character first before advocating for Hi sec interaction.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1086 - 2012-06-26 00:57:27 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
If CCP agreed with your idea of making the game better then it would have been done already a long time ago.
9 years is a long time for null space to not be vibrant.

So uh, the fact that CCP h as been known to forget to make old features not suck the last ... uh, let's say few years, in search for the jesus feature, means that all the old content is golden and working absolutely perfectly? That's your line of reasoning?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1087 - 2012-06-26 00:58:13 UTC
Null = Politics

How many people love or hate politics?
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1088 - 2012-06-26 01:02:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Look, I can be as wrong as the next guy, but I'm not *closed* to anything that comes from null - the more I read, the more I just feel like going -10 again and just nuking whoever the hell comes through the next gate...

Interdict all of hi-sec, ffs.....


Edit to add: hell, what I have become...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1089 - 2012-06-26 01:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Hammer Crendraven
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Nope!

The game has been like this for what 9 years and suddenly now you have a problem with game mechanics?

Talk about mindblown! I would say the game is working as designed. But suddenly we have a class of null players that can not cope with null.

I've lived out of a POS for basically the last 15 months with my corp in Wormhole Space. POS mechanics (and building things in POS') have sucked the whole time.

This is *NOT* about "null-sec" players who can't cope, even though you might *LIKE* it to be that.

It's about design decisions made "back in the day" that are / were cludgy at best - but worked. It's about making null sec *not* dependent on 500,000 manufacturing slots in Hi-sec (for example) when (for example) and entire *REGION'S* manufacturing capacity had to be put to *just* making fuel blocks before crucible...

The question becomes "why, if null sec is about building *empires* - does it suck at doing/supporting that goal"?

So no, it's not "suddenly" anything.


Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Center for Advanced Studies [CAS] from 2012.04.18 19:16 to this day

C'mon - wtf? Why does everyone feel that they have to have a dam forum alt? FFS - I"ve disagreed with people on the forums for 4 years...

I don't get that...


Be carefull what you wish for. I am quite sure CCP does not want null space and wormhole space to have the same advantages and disadvantages. What if your premiss is wrong, is null sec about building empires? and even if it is does that also apply to wormhole space? Again 9 years of this I do not see much if anything changing any time soon.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#1090 - 2012-06-26 01:06:12 UTC
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
That’s not necessarily a true statement, corrected it should read ‘Highsec is ISK that the GSF doesn’t completely control’ most suggestions that I see promulgated by the Goons and their associates relate more to lowering the barriers to Hi Sec control than correcting any perceived imbalance in low sec.

What is this concept you speak of, "hisec control"? Who wants to control hisec?

Marconus Orion wrote:
So why do you continue to punish yourselves with living in null and be mad at those of us who choose to have fun elsewhere?

I'm having my cake and eating it too, by doing fleet fights in nullsec and doing industry/L4s in hisec. vOv

Seriously its about sphere of influence, Burn Jita, Hulkaggeddon, the Ice Interdiction, War Dec’s on small corps are all control mechanisms, they all designed to extend a the Goons sphere of influence beyond their Nul sec boundaries. All these actions impact on the players in the regions affected, now put the shoe on the other foot where players find effective methods of combating Goon tactics and the school yard bully is revealed. GSF as a collective has a Jekyll and Hyde nature, only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side as evidenced by the Goons PR machine in the forums can be described as "charming" and "convincing", the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; In the case of the GSF Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act. If the Goons want to be taken seriously they need to clean up their own act/character first before advocating for Hi sec interaction.


Jesus Christ. Are you really saying that Nullsec was designed in order to give Goons an advantage? Even though nullsec was designed before they ever became a nullsec entity, maybe even before Goonswarm was a thing in game?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1091 - 2012-06-26 01:08:05 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
If CCP agreed with your idea of making the game better then it would have been done already a long time ago.
9 years is a long time for null space to not be vibrant.

So uh, the fact that CCP h as been known to forget to make old features not suck the last ... uh, let's say few years, in search for the jesus feature, means that all the old content is golden and working absolutely perfectly? That's your line of reasoning?


I am thinking you are barking up a tree that is never going to change. So this entire thread does not matter one bit.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#1092 - 2012-06-26 01:08:06 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
That’s not necessarily a true statement, corrected it should read ‘Highsec is ISK that the GSF doesn’t completely control’ most suggestions that I see promulgated by the Goons and their associates relate more to lowering the barriers to Hi Sec control than correcting any perceived imbalance in low sec.

What is this concept you speak of, "hisec control"? Who wants to control hisec?

Marconus Orion wrote:
So why do you continue to punish yourselves with living in null and be mad at those of us who choose to have fun elsewhere?

I'm having my cake and eating it too, by doing fleet fights in nullsec and doing industry/L4s in hisec. vOv

Seriously its about sphere of influence, Burn Jita, Hulkaggeddon, the Ice Interdiction, War Dec’s on small corps are all control mechanisms, they all designed to extend a the Goons sphere of influence beyond their Nul sec boundaries. All these actions impact on the players in the regions affected, now put the shoe on the other foot where players find effective methods of combating Goon tactics and the school yard bully is revealed. GSF as a collective has a Jekyll and Hyde nature, only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side as evidenced by the Goons PR machine in the forums can be described as "charming" and "convincing", the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; In the case of the GSF Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act. If the Goons want to be taken seriously they need to clean up their own act/character first before advocating for Hi sec interaction.


Jesus Christ. Are you really saying that Nullsec was designed in order to give Goons an advantage? Even though nullsec was designed before they ever became a nullsec entity, maybe even before Goonswarm was a thing in game?


Yes.

Yes he is.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#1093 - 2012-06-26 01:10:23 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:


Jesus Christ. Are you really saying that Nullsec was designed in order to give Goons an advantage? Even though nullsec was designed before they ever became a nullsec entity, maybe even before Goonswarm was a thing in game?


Yes.

Yes he is.


CCPWaffe, indeed. It was an inside job from the very start.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1094 - 2012-06-26 01:11:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Seriously its about sphere of influence, Burn Jita, Hulkaggeddon, the Ice Interdiction, War Dec’s on small corps are all control mechanisms, they all designed to extend a the Goons sphere of influence beyond their Nul sec boundaries.

Oh, I see. So we've been wardecced more or less constantly at least the last 2 years by the same gaggle of hisec ganker corps (incidentally, the same gaggle of ganker corps which dogpiled on literally every wardec out there which was open to the public), and everything is fine. We wardec 2 corps, and GSF is out for "hisec domination".

Now that's what I call fair and balanced reporting.

Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Be carefull what you wish for. I am quite sure CCP does not want null space and wormhole space to have the same advantages and disadvantages. What if your premiss is wrong, is null sec about building empires? and even if it is does that also apply to wormhole space? Again 9 years of this I do not see much if anything changing any time soon.

Nullsec is for empirebuilding, this has been stated time and time again, yet it can't support actually building an empire, it basically has to stay latched at the Jita teat. Working fine and dandy, there.

I don't see why you're bringing WHs into the picture, apart from Asuri's comments about living out of a POS. Living out of a POS has always sucked dicks through a straw, regardless of where you live, because there are a fucktonne of things which basically require a station, and you Just Can't Do with the mechanics you've got available at a POS. If you've tried to live out of a POS, you'd know this. I don't really expect you to have this knowledge.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#1095 - 2012-06-26 01:12:02 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Be carefull what you wish for. I am quite sure CCP does not want null space and wormhole space to have the same advantages and disadvantages. What if you premiss is wrong, is null sec about building empires? and even if it is does that also apply to wormhole space? Again 9 years of this I do not see much if anything changing any time soon.

*BELIEVE ME* I'm well aware of that -

Bloody hell, there's a CSM member who still wants wormhole stretchers, staplers, stabilizers and washer/dryer combo's because he thinks that corps/alliances that are in hi end wh's are "invulnerable"... /pants-on-head... So he wants to make it possible to make wormholes = gates. But the thing is, the random nature of the routes in and out of wh space is what make it unique.

Null has *always* been about the "ultimate expression" of player's wills...

Agree with the players out there or not, but that is what it's set up for (and wh's to a lesser degree - *because of the random nature of travel). So yeah, I know to be careful what I ask for. So far, CCP has indicated that POS mechanics are getting looked at - fair enough, I can't wait to see what they do come up with.

But seriously - all rah-rah, trolling aside, if players run null-sec, why do they have to abide by "the rules" when it comes to manufacturing, for example? There is no "OSHA" in Null sec... There should be *some* advantage to manufacturing in null - I personally don't think it will bring many *new* players out to null - but seriously? An entire region making fuel blocks ffs?

:psyduck:

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#1096 - 2012-06-26 01:14:12 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
That’s not necessarily a true statement, corrected it should read ‘Highsec is ISK that the GSF doesn’t completely control’ most suggestions that I see promulgated by the Goons and their associates relate more to lowering the barriers to Hi Sec control than correcting any perceived imbalance in low sec.

What is this concept you speak of, "hisec control"? Who wants to control hisec?

Marconus Orion wrote:
So why do you continue to punish yourselves with living in null and be mad at those of us who choose to have fun elsewhere?

I'm having my cake and eating it too, by doing fleet fights in nullsec and doing industry/L4s in hisec. vOv

Seriously its about sphere of influence, Burn Jita, Hulkaggeddon, the Ice Interdiction, War Dec’s on small corps are all control mechanisms, they all designed to extend a the Goons sphere of influence beyond their Nul sec boundaries. All these actions impact on the players in the regions affected, now put the shoe on the other foot where players find effective methods of combating Goon tactics and the school yard bully is revealed. GSF as a collective has a Jekyll and Hyde nature, only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side as evidenced by the Goons PR machine in the forums can be described as "charming" and "convincing", the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; In the case of the GSF Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act. If the Goons want to be taken seriously they need to clean up their own act/character first before advocating for Hi sec interaction.


Jesus Christ. Are you really saying that Nullsec was designed in order to give Goons an advantage? Even though nullsec was designed before they ever became a nullsec entity, maybe even before Goonswarm was a thing in game?


No thats not what was said, Nul sec was designed as Nul a blank slate, players can make of it what they will the Goons just appear to be unhappy/unsatisfied with what they have created in the space provided and rather than looking to improve what they have they seem intent on coercing the rest of the sandbox into their idea of game play.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1097 - 2012-06-26 01:15:01 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
If CCP agreed with your idea of making the game better then it would have been done already a long time ago.
9 years is a long time for null space to not be vibrant.

So uh, the fact that CCP h as been known to forget to make old features not suck the last ... uh, let's say few years, in search for the jesus feature, means that all the old content is golden and working absolutely perfectly? That's your line of reasoning?


I am thinking you are barking up a tree that is never going to change. So this entire thread does not matter one bit.

In other words, your reasoning is that the old content CCP made years and years ago is perfect and there's nothing to do to update it to today's population levels.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#1098 - 2012-06-26 01:16:10 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
Be carefull what you wish for. I am quite sure CCP does not want null space and wormhole space to have the same advantages and disadvantages. What if you premiss is wrong, is null sec about building empires? and even if it is does that also apply to wormhole space? Again 9 years of this I do not see much if anything changing any time soon.

*BELIEVE ME* I'm well aware of that -

Bloody hell, there's a CSM member who still wants wormhole stretchers, staplers, stabilizers and washer/dryer combo's because he thinks that corps/alliances that are in hi end wh's are "invulnerable"... /pants-on-head... So he wants to make it possible to make wormholes = gates. But the thing is, the random nature of the routes in and out of wh space is what make it unique.

Null has *always* been about the "ultimate expression" of player's wills...

Agree with the players out there or not, but that is what it's set up for (and wh's to a lesser degree - *because of the random nature of travel). So yeah, I know to be careful what I ask for. So far, CCP has indicated that POS mechanics are getting looked at - fair enough, I can't wait to see what they do come up with.

But seriously - all rah-rah, trolling aside, if players run null-sec, why do they have to abide by "the rules" when it comes to manufacturing, for example? There is no "OSHA" in Null sec... There should be *some* advantage to manufacturing in null - I personally don't think it will bring many *new* players out to null - but seriously? An entire region making fuel blocks ffs?

:psyduck:



Are you saying there needs to be more opportunity for railing deaths in nullsec?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1099 - 2012-06-26 01:18:38 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
In other words, your reasoning is that the old content CCP made years and years ago is perfect and there's nothing to do to update it to today's population levels.

Lets give three cheers for CCP's content !
Titans !
Jump bridges !
Dominion sov mechanics !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1100 - 2012-06-26 01:19:52 UTC
Tarku Huhtsu wrote:
No thats not what was said, Nul sec was designed as Nul a blank slate, players can make of it what they will the Goons just appear to be unhappy/unsatisfied with what they have created in the space provided and rather than looking to improve what they have they seem intent on coercing the rest of the sandbox into their idea of game play.

So what you're saying is that fighting in nullsec and making money, manufacturing and shipping in hisec is exactly how the game was designed to be played.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat