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When does all the ganking make mining worth it?

Author
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#121 - 2012-06-01 22:30:06 UTC
10/10 Merin. They all think you're serious when you're just trolling Lol

" it doesn't pay much", "veteran income", "boring as hell", "parasites", you'd think someone would cotton on.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#122 - 2012-06-01 22:39:47 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Cyprus Amaro wrote:
Would you explain the logic train that led you to this conclusion? How are hi-sec miners "worthless parasites" to EVE? I'm relatively new, but I thought that mining has always been an integral part of EVE since its inception.


Highsec miners (and other highsec carebears) are worthless parasites because they wreck the risk/reward balance by making veteran-level income in what is supposed to be the tutorial area, and then whining and crying and demanding nerfs every time someone threatens their ability to carebear AFK with 100% safety.

Miners in general are a useful part of EVE, but they are supposed to be mining in lowsec/0.0. Unfortunately the easy money of highsec, combined with mining bots, drives mineral prices down and kills the appeal of mining outside highsec for the few people who might otherwise make good money there.

End result: lazy and stupid people get rich at the expense of the overall health of the game. I think that's a pretty good definition of "worthless parasite".



U mad bro?

Lets all jump on the "We hate miners" band wagon. If the goonies told you to self destruct all your ship you possibly will. All im seeing here is a goons fanboi, trying to impress them.


Grow up. its a game.


vOv
Archimedes Eratosthenes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2012-06-01 23:02:45 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Khadann wrote:

Describing how players should play in a sandbox does not make much sense...

Also, you mentioned it : we have the lowest risks but also the lowest rewards, it's not like if we were stealing your assets or interfering with your playstyle, we just want to be left alone... but does not help apparently :s

of course it does

its a sandbox and what i want to do is ride you around like a donkey whipping you senseless

what you want to do is not get treated like a donkey

since my sandbox-fu is better than yours, you get to be ridden around and beaten

enjoy!

Don't pretend that the butthurt Mittani isn't the one fueling this fire to hurt CCP's wallet for giving him a 30-day ban. It has nothing to do with miners at all.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2012-06-02 00:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?



thanks for perpetuating the myths.... not a bot, likes to mine, has been mining for 7 years (near 8) of eve my eve play

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Inago Yaki
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2012-06-04 14:14:15 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Khadann wrote:

Describing how players should play in a sandbox does not make much sense...

Also, you mentioned it : we have the lowest risks but also the lowest rewards, it's not like if we were stealing your assets or interfering with your playstyle, we just want to be left alone... but does not help apparently :s

of course it does

its a sandbox and what i want to do is ride you around like a donkey whipping you senseless

what you want to do is not get treated like a donkey

since my sandbox-fu is better than yours, you get to be ridden around and beaten

enjoy!

That's states the overall issue very succinctly, sir. Some people what to ride other people around like donkeys. Not just beat them in a competition, but ride them around like donkeys. Ever think of seeing a therapist?
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#126 - 2012-06-04 15:30:49 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.


I have nothing to add, this is exactly the case
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#127 - 2012-06-04 15:58:08 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
What's wrong with letting a guy like that have some fun, if that's what he likes?


Ruining his fun by endlessly ganking him is what gives the "real pvp'ers" something to fap to.


Wow!! Ganking is real PvP for real PvPers!!

Its like saying that masturbating is real sex with a real person!!

You should seriously find someone to get laid with!!
Nykala
L.L.A.M.A.
#128 - 2012-06-25 22:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nykala
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Ituhata Saken wrote:
What am I missing here, or is it an issue that you just can't get get miners to come out to null?


The issue is that the Hulk is an endgame mining ship. It is only flown by veteran players, ideally with a high level of player and character skills. For the solo player, it is the ultimate mining ship, and it is an important element in any larger-scale mining operation.



(few pages back) Hmm, and here I thought the rorqual was the end game mining ship, meant for the end-game corners of space. Only flown by vetran players, ideally with a high level of player and character skills. Minus the solo player bit, and it has the best benefits to large-scale mining ops.

Covert Kitty wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.


I have nothing to add, this is exactly the case


FYI, there are plenty of highsec "carebears" who are thrown under the assumption that they never once use that extra income to fund pvp or otherwise encourage the games economy by asploding other peoples assets. If you really think this is the case, then you've overlooked a pretty big detail in the logistics of how some corps and alliances maintain themselves. Which is all good since the more folks look over that fact, the easyer it is to keep operations running smoothly. PvPers have to make iskies somehow after all. Also, not only has highsec been a training area for beginning players, it has also been a spot where new alliances and corporations grow and develop in all of the neccesary means to eventually make their way out to nullsec. Eliminate all income there, and what may come from it is just more renter/pet alliances with minimal efficiency and half arsed methods to use as cannon fodder for the already established groups in null. Or more folks afk cloaking in such established regions to ninja/leech off of your sov upgrades without having to pay for them. ^.^ Hulks make use of highsec, with the hopes of one day being able to fund a multi billion isk jump freighter or rorqual at least somewhat independently with out having to be at the mercy of a hosting alliance or having home security reimbursements dipping into their funds for building a corporate foundation.

Then there is the common idea that highsec is 100% safe, when if im remembering various articles correctly, more kills happen in highsec then in null, and the average view actually suggests the opposite, that nullsec is more safe. Hence it would be the ideal carebear haven. Even without hulkageddon or various attempts to take down highsec pve pilots, a chance of risk still exists in highsec, even if it is a risk in pilot error or the common assumption that a bigger sized ship is neccesary to get a job done. This is where in eve, you die, you learn. 1.0 security space is the tutorial space, not all of highsec, and it acts as intented, and has very little profit. As the security level drops, so does the strenght of things that can kill you ,and the amount of skills that are neccesary to prevent yourself from keeling over ded. .6 and .5 space are a pirates playground, with only a minor increase in profits to really high sec, compared to what you can pull out of null in hours. Furthermore, as pirates are, hulks in highsec or no, they will just gank or (...)geddon something else. Cheap kills and bodly fluids for easy killboard stats is what they are after, not a specific ship type. The hulkageddon theme/prizes and payouts is just an added perk. Remove all of that and they just change their flavor of the month.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#129 - 2012-06-25 22:45:20 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area


Wrong.
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2012-06-25 22:46:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Khadann wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?


im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.



THIS


Perhaps if they didn't ***** and whine so much we wouldn't call them whiny bitches.


So how are those fat tears rolling for that FW LP abuse?
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2012-06-25 22:54:44 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.



What?

Please link the EVE wiki that says that Hi Sec is the tutorial of EVE.

Hulkagedon ensures that Hi sec mining is one of the riskiest things a player can do.

Hi sec marketeer is where most of the financial risk in EVE takes place.

If CCP got rid of hi sec, I wonder what % of players would quit EVE. I would think it would be pretty significant.

If CCP got rid of hi sec mining, how many customers would delete dedicated mining accounts?

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB

Tarku Huhtsu
Doomheim
#132 - 2012-06-25 23:00:07 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Aramatheia wrote:
i participate in a ship building operation, hence i mine. Should there be less ships entering the game? whats people going to fly if thier ships blow up and theres no ship builders replacing the losses?

Mining and ship production can be handled by those in nullsec or even lowsec. Highsec miners have absolutely nothing to offer. If fewer ships entered the game as a result of carebears' destruction, who cares? I sure don't.


"All cruelty springs from weakness."
(Seneca, 4BC-AD65)

Emotionally ******** with an arrested level of emotional development; whilst language and intellect may appear to be that of an adult, the bully displays the emotional age of a five-year-old
Talena Isu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-06-25 23:08:22 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.


whoa...and here was me thinking this was a sandbox where no one dictated how you played.......

did not know CCP had hired you for the position of god of eve Merin, gz on the appointment.

Besides, Nullsec is all safe carebear alliances, so I dont really know what you are talking about.
Marzuq
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#134 - 2012-06-25 23:24:52 UTC
The stupidity in this thread is purely astounding.

People are complaining that you make a measly 20 million an hour mining and call it "veteran level income"?

20 million an hour is a very low rate of income in this game. Mining is easy to do as result the market reflects the income of mining as it is.

If you're making only 20 million an hour in nullsec, then you must be terribad.

Then there are people demanding that all of mining should be moved to nullsec?

Now that's getting ridiculous at that point there will be a demand for everything to be moved into nullsec, with nothing else in other spaces. You won't get people to come to nullsec, they will say "screw it" and go play diablo 3.

The community of the game will fall apart and eventually there won't be enough players to keep the game running.
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2012-06-26 00:07:18 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
It's really hard to gloat over 7000 hulks killed in a month, then talk about how safe high sec is, isn't it?


Not really. The issue isn't just how safe highsec is now (and it's still pretty safe, even if a lot of stupid people are getting ganked), it's also how safe the highsec carebears WANT it to be. If, instead of "nerf suicide ganking", the general highsec carebear response was "yay, my competition is dead now the minerals are all mine", there might be a bit more room for understanding, but what we actually have is a lot of very loud people demanding changes that will damage the risk/reward balance even more than they already have.

Quote:
It's just idiotic to keep telling people they're playing a sandbox game the wrong way.


It's not just that they're playing it "the wrong way", the problem is that they're:

1) Getting too much reward for the minimal risks in highsec.

and

2) Demanding changes which would be make the situation even worse every time there's a threat to their ability to have 100% safe AFK income.

As long as these two statements are true, highsec carebears deserve to be ganked over and over again until they quit the game. And they will not be missed.




I find this all rather odd and funny. In order for miners to be getting this reward somebody (IE another player) has to be paying them this reward for these minerals instead of getting these minerals for themselves.

I find that it is the null sec players alts in high sec that are industrialists that are doing the buying. Thus causing their own problem. Most high sec players mine their own minerals for their builds but have to in fact buy the low and null sec minerals as they can not mine those themselves.

In the end the null sec whinners are their own worst enemy in this cycle of events. They are the cause and effect.
Ie Look in the mirror comments very valid.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#136 - 2012-06-26 01:10:24 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
I find this all rather odd and funny. In order for miners to be getting this reward somebody (IE another player) has to be paying them this reward for these minerals instead of getting these minerals for themselves.

I find that it is the null sec players alts in high sec that are industrialists that are doing the buying. Thus causing their own problem. Most high sec players mine their own minerals for their builds but have to in fact buy the low and null sec minerals as they can not mine those themselves.

In the end the null sec whinners are their own worst enemy in this cycle of events. They are the cause and effect.
Ie Look in the mirror comments very valid.

"you need us"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2012-06-26 04:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Reech Yvormes
I cancelled my sub after 1 month of playing eve. you win, im leaving. how victorious do you feel now? im sure its for the good of the game as you say.

sorry that my high sec mining wasnt welcome in your game. or that you feel offended by a player who doesnt even have skills at level 5, who is trying to get a pot of money so he can afford to lose his ship or implants. i was earning about 2million isk an hour. i guess that really makes your elite characters skin crawl at how much 2 million an hour is breaking your game.

i guess that was just wrong of me.

have fun with all the beggars and freeloader newbies instead of those who have initiative to do something for themselves.

by the way, i was reading this because i just came to see if my petition has been answered yet. nope it hasnt!

dont expect me to reply to anything you say about me
Tesal
#138 - 2012-06-26 05:37:17 UTC
Posting in another "miners deserve to die" thread. They are running 3 of these threads to every miner thread now. All it is is "like" whoring at this point.

Op is a troll and a bad one.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2012-06-26 05:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
dunno, i'll just continue dispensing panem et circenses to the 99%

"here, peasants, kill the other peasants"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2012-06-26 06:10:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Reech Yvormes
And as a hunter im sure you would shoot anything you see?

Even at the cost of wiping out your own stock of prey from your hunting grounds?

Surely you understand that simple economy?

A pirate shouldnt do their best to stop ships sailing. Am I right?

Have fun ganking and podding newbies who are hurting your game so much.