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Nullsec Local Delay

Author
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-06-25 19:11:57 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Because probes have not been invented yet...
But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before.



Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions.


Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned.

But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#42 - 2012-06-25 19:13:25 UTC
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Because probes have not been invented yet...
But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before.



Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions.


Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned.

But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh?


I would rather keep local. It means I can pvp while being AFK.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-06-25 19:19:22 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:

You forget this is allready worked out, all of this is used every day in WH space.

Statistically wh space has less deaths per capita then 0.0 sov space, so that's arguable.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-06-25 19:20:53 UTC
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned.

But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh?

Nah, all hi sec miners have to do is fit tanks instead of expanded cargoholds and MLUs.
Only highsec miners feel entitled to failfit their ships

hth
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-06-25 19:31:20 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now.


That doesnt sound exactly the same at all to me, it sounds like people having to put forth effort to get intel.

It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2012-06-25 20:08:22 UTC
It is funny that people only look at the "cost" of the intel, calling it "free", but don't factor in the quality of the intel that local provides.

All local tells you is that some one is in the system. Doesn't say what they are flying, where they are at, if they are in a fleet, etc.


And like typical whiners, all they are thinking about is how easy it would be to ambush players. Totally forgetting that their targets might just do a cost/benefit analysis, and go off to wormholes where the rewards are better and the risk is less (no local, but no cynos, can close the entrances). Or take a possibly lower reward for lower risk in highsec missions or lowsec faction warfare. And highsec also has the benefit of having the best markets, so even if you do get ganked you can reship for cheaper.

Speaking as some one who lives full time in nullsec, I'll leave if a hamfisted no-local was implemented. Less risk and way better return in wormholes or way less risk for almost as good reward in high/lowsec. The only time I would do anything in nullsec would be in "blobs", because there is safety in numbers.


So go ahead an remove local. I, and many others, will go make isk somewhere else, and if you guys find anyone in nullsec, they'll be in a big fleet and you can move on to crying on the forums about how unfair "blobs" are, and start scheming to nerf those.
Suqq Madiq
#47 - 2012-06-25 20:16:31 UTC
Womyn Power wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
This idea is brand new and has never been suggested before. Bravo, you win +1 nobel prizes.


It hasn't been changed, no thread on the front page about it, why not keep one up until it gets changed?


Because it's a terrible idea and will never be changed. You want to remove local? Move into a WH.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#48 - 2012-06-25 20:36:18 UTC
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Because probes have not been invented yet...
But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before.



Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions.


Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned.

But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh?


The medicine only tastes like **** if you have to take it yourself...

I'm an American, English is my second language...

Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#49 - 2012-06-25 20:39:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now.


That doesnt sound exactly the same at all to me, it sounds like people having to put forth effort to get intel.

It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid.


cyno alts, forum alts, miner alts, mission alts, exploration alts, PvP alts, PvE alts, hauler alts

wait

I'm an American, English is my second language...

Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-06-25 20:52:48 UTC
What we need here is a legion of AFK cloakers to scare away the nullbears.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2012-06-25 20:56:44 UTC
yeah I'm gonna consider this debate over until if/when WomynPower comes back
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-06-25 21:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Bootleg Jack wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now.


That doesnt sound exactly the same at all to me, it sounds like people having to put forth effort to get intel.

It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid.


cyno alts, forum alts, miner alts, mission alts, exploration alts, PvP alts, PvE alts, hauler alts

wait

Cyno alt is a bit ridiculous but it's done for convenience rather than anything else.
The rest of these are done because skill training requires specialization if you want to get decent at anything within a reasonable amount of time.

Again, making alternate accounts just to sit on gates cloaked for intel is absolutely ridiculous, but it's what people will be forced to do if you remove local in 0.0. Either that or they'll just leave en masse, which is probably more likely.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#53 - 2012-06-25 21:09:10 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
What we need here is a legion of AFK cloakers to scare away the nullbears.

Yep. Go forth, cloak and go away from your keyboard !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-06-25 21:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
No local works nicely in wormspace because of no cynos, no supercaps, no static entry/exit points, and mass limits.

No local would work terribly in 0.0 because it has none of those other features in common.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#55 - 2012-06-25 21:32:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid.


Yeah most people only have the one account.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-06-25 21:39:10 UTC
I'd have no problem with local delays provided there was a mechanic that allowed alliances to trim them down with upgradable mods. But realistically ratters aren't all that hard to catch.

What's hard to catch is damn bots.
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-06-25 21:41:20 UTC
I have a serious question. I see a lot of 'risk vs. reward is better in high sec' used a lot. What ratio should it be where living in null is worth the risk of no local in the game? Granted this is assuming other changes were to happen like fixing null industry and market to name a couple.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#58 - 2012-06-25 21:46:02 UTC
Local is the ONLY thing that saves the server from processing a a Billion Trillion Dscan clicks by Tens of Thousands of players in Eve,

Every Second of Every Day of the Year.

What a laughing stock of the MMO world would we be if that happened Roll

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  

Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-06-25 21:49:15 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
Local is the ONLY thing that saves the server from processing a a Billion Trillion Dscan clicks by Tens of Thousands of players in Eve,

Every Second of Every Day of the Year.

What a laughing stock of the MMO world would we be if that happened Roll

Confirming that removing local would mean the directional scanner would not be iterated on at the same time. Roll
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#60 - 2012-06-25 21:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Peter Raptor
Marconus Orion wrote:
Peter Raptor wrote:
Local is the ONLY thing that saves the server from processing a a Billion Trillion Dscan clicks by Tens of Thousands of players in Eve,

Every Second of Every Day of the Year.

What a laughing stock of the MMO world would we be if that happened Roll

Confirming that removing local would mean the directional scanner would not be iterated on at the same time. Roll


Well lets see some ideas on that then, instead of "Just remove Local".

I do suspect though, that dscan improvements will be such, that we will end up having "Local" anyway, just under a different name. And what a waste of Dev time and money that'll end up being Ugh

Time will tell.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †