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Nullsec Local Delay
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Taihbea
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-06-25 17:51:06 UTC
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?


boooohoooo.
I have no problem catching ratters. What YOU want is easy kill.
learn to play and HTFU.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#22 - 2012-06-25 17:54:48 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now.


That doesnt sound exactly the same at all to me, it sounds like people having to put forth effort to get intel.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#23 - 2012-06-25 17:55:57 UTC
Taihbea wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?


boooohoooo.
I have no problem catching ratters. What YOU want is easy kill.
learn to play and HTFU.



Says the person defending EZMODE intel Roll

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Ephenos
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#24 - 2012-06-25 17:59:41 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Taihbea wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
Will there ever be a Local Delay (or complete removal of local) in Nullsec?

As of current mechanics it's pretty much impossible to catch any ratter who isn't taking a **** or making food away from the keyboard or something. This means null has literally no risk for anyone competent enough to stay near the computer while 'playing' or competent enough to have a third party program that makes a noise whenever someone enters local (extremely common and easy to find btw lol!)

Does CCP ever plan to address this issue?


boooohoooo.
I have no problem catching ratters. What YOU want is easy kill.
learn to play and HTFU.



Says the person defending EZMODE intel Roll




So far you have put forth your idea. then called anyone who disagreed with you a nullsec carebear or accused them of " defending EZMODE intel" You have not said what you think this would do to the game, not refuted or answered any points made against it, not supported yourself in any way. Do so or be forever (or at least in this thread) merely a bad troll.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-06-25 18:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
I've always liked the idea, but a lot of people who actually live in nullsec think it's terrible. Perhaps it's because I don't live in nullsec, and haven't for years - the only place without security I've been recently is wormhole space, and to be honest I always found wormhole space more fun due to the lack of politics.

It's like dis homie:

With the inclusion of stuff like cynos and static routes instead of unstable wormholes, removing local would make sov pve an order of magnitude more dangerous then wormhole pve, for far less reward. Now, I could grind anoms without local in a disposable ship semi-gimped because it's dual-purpose for pvp and pve for a base income of (l4 q20 mission income +30%), but doing it in an extremely gimped ship profitwise, or I can bomb through l4/q20 missions in highsec with a pimped out machariel and increase my income yield far more then +30%. That's just math. This combination of making highsec pve more isk with no risk is why most nullsec players are really against thoughtless tampering with local. For one, it would quickly reduce Womyn Power's ganking pastime to a thing of the past.

Personally, I would like to see local replaced by a more involved intel tool that rewarded active play by both attacker and defender so that a nice middle ground could be achieved, but am against the flatout removal of it with no replacement intel gathering tools.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#26 - 2012-06-25 18:07:59 UTC
OIC, responding to "learn to play..." with an ezmode comment is not allowed, you get what you dish out...


Beyond that it is a no brainer:
* free intel
* no equipment required
* no slots required
* no ship required
* no isk
* no effort

It is wrong on the face of it and obvious to anyone who is not defending their advantage...

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-25 18:10:04 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now.


That sounds a lot like people having to spend real-life money and time watching gates - expending effort to provide reliable intelligence. That sounds like a system in which ennui and lapses in human judgement are a real issue. That sounds like something you'd have to work at and provide incentives to maintain.

That sounds like something interesting.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#28 - 2012-06-25 18:12:55 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now.


That sounds a lot like people having to spend real-life money and time watching gates - expending effort to provide reliable intelligence. That sounds like a system in which ennui and lapses in human judgement are a real issue. That sounds like something you'd have to work at and provide incentives to maintain.

That sounds like something interesting.


That sounds like EvE, especially the effort part...

... except it is not EvE, in EvE intel is free, no effort required.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#29 - 2012-06-25 18:14:03 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Marconus Orion wrote:
High sec will give up NPC corps if null gives up local. Deal? lol

Awfully tempting... hmm..

But then highsec will whine in order to get back NPC corps. It's just another attempt to remove our chat channel. Because we use it effectively in fleet fights.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#30 - 2012-06-25 18:19:17 UTC
This thread. Again.

What OP fails to realize is that if there is a local delay, then it will take a while for him to see that there are targets in the system too.

Oh wait, I get it. It's "delay their local but not mine".
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#31 - 2012-06-25 18:24:25 UTC
Because probes have not been invented yet...

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#32 - 2012-06-25 18:27:55 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Because probes have not been invented yet...


Confirming that probes don't show up on dscan.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-06-25 18:29:47 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
This idea is brand new and has never been suggested before. Bravo, you win +1 nobel prizes.


Not sure what rock you lived under but it has been mentioned multiple times. so countless you can take the time to dig for the thread on this
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-06-25 18:30:32 UTC
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Because probes have not been invented yet...
But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before.



Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#35 - 2012-06-25 18:35:12 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Because probes have not been invented yet...
But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before.





No, it would be worse, because all I have to do is sit a cloaky alt on the gate, which you will never be able to see since he's not in local either. Then I can be gone before you ever realized that I was there.

These suggestions are made by people who fail at EVE. It's not our fault you can't play the game. Ratters and miners get caught all the time. Maybe what you REALLY want is for the gate to drop you straight on the grid of anyone ratting or mining, right?
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-06-25 18:39:39 UTC
Increase risk, **** up bots, more things exploding, more dynamic environment and intel harder to get therefore of more advantage to the person putting in the effort to get it.

This would obviously **** up EVE~

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#37 - 2012-06-25 18:42:55 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
No, it would be worse, because all I have to do is sit a cloaky alt on the gate, which you will never be able to see since he's not in local either. Then I can be gone before you ever realized that I was there.

These suggestions are made by people who fail at EVE. It's not our fault you can't play the game. Ratters and miners get caught all the time. Maybe what you REALLY want is for the gate to drop you straight on the grid of anyone ratting or mining, right?

Sounds like fun.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
czMulti
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-06-25 18:55:54 UTC
Laktos wrote:
Increase risk, **** up bots, more things exploding, more dynamic environment and intel harder to get therefore of more advantage to the person putting in the effort to get it.

This would obviously **** up EVE~


somebody said wh space?
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#39 - 2012-06-25 18:58:18 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Bootleg Jack wrote:
Because probes have not been invented yet...


Confirming that probes don't show up on dscan.


He has to press the button, they call it effort, there could even be a device, that takes a slot, that works better.

This is how EvE is supposed to work.

You forget this is allready worked out, all of this is used every day in WH space.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-06-25 19:03:04 UTC
Ephenos wrote:




2: The people I enjoy shooting more, specifically other gangs that shoot back, wont have the isk to be able to casually throw ships in from of my gang if they cant make money easily.




TLDR: Leave the nullbears alone, I want to have someone to shoot, and if they spent 75% of their time on their highsec alt making chump change, they are not throwing their pvp mains at me.


You make a valid point. My argument is having local as infallible intel it cheapens those fights with gangs you like so much. Instead of using scouts and tactics, you can just keep a -1/+1 (one system behind the fleet, one ahead) with semi-afk alts and just watch local. Gathering intel on enemy fleets should not be done with a quasi-afk, zero SP alt IMO. I think gathering intel on the enemy should take skill, and not just be a freebie. So maybe delayed local is not the best solution to the problem of local intel, but it is a huge improvement over what we have now.