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exploit vs. sloppy game mechanic design
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Frying Doom
#241 - 2012-06-25 13:11:54 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?


If the child is playing EvE the child needs to go. You have to be 13 to playBig smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#242 - 2012-06-25 13:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Talon SilverHawk
Lord Ryan wrote:
Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.

When a child is violated are you not appalled?

Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?



Yes as the child in general is part of a greifer org (self admitted) who's motto is "we are not here to ruin the game, we are here to ruin your game "

So excuse us if we don't shed a tear when there own actions turn around and bite them in the ass....

Lol sympathy for Goons.

Tal
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#243 - 2012-06-25 13:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
How many of you started reading the forums after being ganked at Jita Burn? A lot of senseless hatred in this thread.
Frying Doom
#244 - 2012-06-25 13:22:25 UTC
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
How many of you started reading the forums after being ganked at Jita Burn? Lots of senseless hatred in this thread.

I doubt anyone who is on this forum or reads it was in Jita during the burn. Well except the Goons of course.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2012-06-25 13:24:40 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
They broke the rules, pure and simple.

Frying Doom wrote:
They should be punished pure and simple.

At the time of the actions in question, it was not deemed an exploit, and it was not utilizing a programming bug. Exactly like insurance fraud, PI, PA, titan bowling and tracking titans etc etc etc. Which means that the way CCP is handling matters of this type has changed in this case.

Frying Doom wrote:
They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple.

Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#246 - 2012-06-25 13:34:49 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple.

Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act?

No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#247 - 2012-06-25 13:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple.

Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act?

No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time.

Enlighten me. Wich rule did they broke? I dont want to read a 150 page thread looking for it.
I read the EULA though.
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#248 - 2012-06-25 13:44:37 UTC
Just to make things clear. I'm just the average curious guy. I have no simpaty for the Goons. Although, as an EVE player, I have a lot of interest in how CCP handles different game actions.
Frying Doom
#249 - 2012-06-25 13:54:22 UTC
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple.

Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act?

No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time.

Enlighten me. Wich rule did they broke? I dont want to read a 150 page thread looking for it.
I read the EULA though.

Rules, multiple and if you can only be bothered reading the EULA you should not be playing eve.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#250 - 2012-06-25 13:56:42 UTC
'multiple' is not even close to be an acceptable answer.
Begone, troll.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#251 - 2012-06-25 14:02:13 UTC
Lord Ryan wrote:
Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.

When a child is violated are you not appalled?

Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?


Wow, you've got a well-constructed strawman here, in which you compare Goons to children and the punishment they received to sexual assault.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2012-06-25 14:04:36 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple.

Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act?

No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time.

So you're calling insurance fraud, PI manip, PA refining, tracking titans etc "not bugs", then? I mean, they were design flaws which people used to "gain an unfair advantage over other players", yet no punishment were doled out in any way, shape or form.

So something has changed. Are you saying CCP are doing this just to be vindictive over being made to look bad?

Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
Enlighten me. Wich rule did they broke? I dont want to read a 150 page thread looking for it.
I read the EULA though.

The one I keep hearing is http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp, point 23, but by that definition all the players who did the above (and more) should also be banned or negwalleted or have their assets gained during that heist (and then some) seized, yet nothing happened at all to them. The only thing which happened was that the usage pattern was deemed an exploit (at which point you used it at your own peril), the game mechanic was changed, and everything just kept on trucking.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#253 - 2012-06-25 14:11:45 UTC
I see another GOON pet has head up arse again. lets take another look at this with an anology from real life
Gallon of Gasoline = Legal
Glass Jar = Legl
Rag = Legal
Match = Legal
yes those are all legal but when combine them it become Molotov Cocktail is ILLEGAL. Which basicly yhe GOONs did and tossed it on Sreegs desk.

I seen in a few games where a group were problem that the DEV when asked stated "we know about and are addressing the issue" but you go and play with the problem not knowing if they are considering it an Exploit, bug or coding issue. COMMON SENSE would dictate that they may consider this a an exploit and should not do it. for Lack of thinking you got in trouble. Just man up and face the consequences but we all know that the GOONs/PETs that get caught doing this have no idea to think other then seeing dollar signs.

Have fun kids they deserve what they get.
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#254 - 2012-06-25 14:21:40 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

The one I keep hearing is http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp, point 23, but by that definition all the players who did the above (and more) should also be banned or negwalleted or have their assets gained during that heist (and then some) seized, yet nothing happened at all to them. The only thing which happened was that the usage pattern was deemed an exploit (at which point you used it at your own peril), the game mechanic was changed, and everything just kept on trucking.


That rule doesn't apply since it wasn't a bug Goons exploited. They just figured out the game formula for calculating LP payout and abused it.
That's the same thing players had to do when CCP released thermodynamics. The difference is the mechanic for LP payout was a really poor one wich wasn't tested properly before release to prevent this type of abuse... AND I believe it was not expected from CCP for it to be of any player focus.
I do agree that Goons should't keep the profit from it, since keeping trillions from a design flaw is bit of game breaking. Now being punished for it isn't right. They probably deserve some punishment in-game for other actions but not from CCP.
What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all.
Signal11th
#255 - 2012-06-25 14:23:10 UTC
Seems to me being more intelligent than a CCP developer is considered an exploit nowadays.


God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#256 - 2012-06-25 14:26:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Lord Ryan wrote:
Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.

When a child is violated are you not appalled?

Yet when that child is a goon you cheer?


Wow, you've got a well-constructed strawman here, in which you compare Goons to children and the punishment they received to sexual assault.


Wow, a debate specialist here. You built the strawmen, brother. The poster you quoted didn't made a comparation. He made a metaphor.

EDIT: nvm, I'm not a debate specialist either.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2012-06-25 14:28:38 UTC
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all.

From what I've gathered, all the assets made from this heist seized/removed from the account and the removal of quite a few datacores bought legitimately prior to this whole debacle, in addition to the ISK they spent. No account ban.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#258 - 2012-06-25 14:33:46 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all.

From what I've gathered, all the assets made from this heist seized/removed from the account and the removal of quite a few datacores bought legitimately prior to this whole debacle, in addition to the ISK they spent. No account ban.


Then I'm outta here.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#259 - 2012-06-25 14:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Vicata Heth wrote:
So clearly we should let it continue even though it has a negative effect on the game.

The precedence, which Frying Doom keeps harping on about, on how CCP dealt with this kind of situation in the past has been to tell people it's now considered an exploit, punish those who persist in using it in that fashion (citation needed, I haven't really heard of many people being punished for doing this), change the mechanic to stop people from the creative way they were using it, and move on. This has apparently changed.

I expect the devblog will be detailing that this is the new line with which CCP will deal with any creative use of any game mechanic in future.

They broke the rules, pure and simple.

They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple.

They should be punished pure and simple.


And if they dont, yet another riot and lost subs
pure and simple

Frying Doom wrote:

No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time.


Which funnily enough is also against the rules. Either by making it harder for them to operate the game (by making them look bad) or by saying they are idiots (attacking CCP which if you look at those new rules is a permabann offense without ever being reviewed)

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Doomheim
#260 - 2012-06-25 14:50:03 UTC
They are not being punished. CCP just made a mistake when fixing the mess from the FW design flaw.
Some datacores from Goonswarm assets that will probably be given back if they are telling the truth.