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market bots and their effects
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Aina Sasaki
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-06-17 02:48:44 UTC
Dezolf wrote:
Litair wrote:
[quote=Rykker Bow]**** it's been there all along? :P Thanks a lot, makes life much easier for sure ^^


It's relatively new. It came with Inferno, I believe. Although I may be wrong. :S


Escalation, but you are close enough. :)

- Rei
Andy DelGardo
#22 - 2012-06-17 08:01:44 UTC
Rykker Bow wrote:

I see it this way as well. For some of us the market is the game and not a means to an end for null, WH, or other high cost adventures.

It is not just 0.01'ing ether. There are manipulations, subtle strategies that can yield high profits. PVP'ing other traders that make mistakes, forcing them to take losses in the market. The contacts that can lead to long term relationships that help immensely in manufacturing. The research of dev blogs for speculation, the strong arming competition, the smash and grab, etc. It's only 0.01'ing if you want it to be.


I also fully agree that those are the "cool" parts of the trading game, i simply wonder why the 0.01isk mechanic is so dominant and if there are no better/fun solutions to the problem. I actually gave up arguing on the 0.01isk game a while ago after my feature/suggestion post got stomped by traders. I simply wonder if they argue because they have the time to update every 5min and feel they are loosing a advantage over others, if it gets changed in some way or if they feel this is the only "good" and possible way to solve this particular problem.
I guess it boils down to "we want to grind, because we get an advantage", which is actually fine, since this is true for any MMO out there. I still would love to give traders more tools and mechanics, so there profession is more fun and less grindy. The problem with the "cool" meta-game mechanics is, that u need quite some money to actually pull those of, while simply grinding orders can be done by anyone.

bye Andy
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#23 - 2012-06-17 09:23:09 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
Jita trading can be like that, if you want your order to sell now.

On the other hand, if you go out and about and leave your orders up, surprisingly, they fill/sell.


You just stated one of the most difficult concepts to explain about the markets: prices are permanently ranging, at any time frame, even when they trend. Each time frame sees its scale of range: a daily price motion (also displayed with a candle stick bar) is a little RM, bigger time units see much larger ranges. In all of them, your stuff will eventually sell.

This is also the foundation of the now ancient but always actual The Slow Sell System for Lazy Marketeers


indeed, I usually get bored of updating orders after about 5.... if it weren't for the fluctuations I'd probably never trade anything. people will dump large quantities of just about anything to buy orders

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#24 - 2012-06-24 13:23:55 UTC
Before Januray 2012 the market was rife with bots. Today there are still bots but I can say that they do not last very long. The problem with using a market bot is that you either have to risk a lot of isk and assets from getting banned from CCP or link to an account which risks losing multiple accounts with high wallets or high level of assets.

There are programs out there that are not banned that can alert a player the second he gets 1 isk on specific sale and buy orders allowing him to maintain 1isk across entire spread sheets with out manualing checking each order. I don't know if CCP has plans to ban this behaviour or if it fully supports it. There are multiple programs on offer that can do this for you although it's not really needed unless your planning on having a full market alt.
Sega Phoenix
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#25 - 2012-06-24 19:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Sega Phoenix
Andy DelGardo wrote:
Rykker Bow wrote:

I see it this way as well. For some of us the market is the game and not a means to an end for null, WH, or other high cost adventures.

It is not just 0.01'ing ether. There are manipulations, subtle strategies that can yield high profits. PVP'ing other traders that make mistakes, forcing them to take losses in the market. The contacts that can lead to long term relationships that help immensely in manufacturing. The research of dev blogs for speculation, the strong arming competition, the smash and grab, etc. It's only 0.01'ing if you want it to be.


I also fully agree that those are the "cool" parts of the trading game, i simply wonder why the 0.01isk mechanic is so dominant and if there are no better/fun solutions to the problem. I actually gave up arguing on the 0.01isk game a while ago after my feature/suggestion post got stomped by traders. I simply wonder if they argue because they have the time to update every 5min and feel they are loosing a advantage over others, if it gets changed in some way or if they feel this is the only "good" and possible way to solve this particular problem.
I guess it boils down to "we want to grind, because we get an advantage", which is actually fine, since this is true for any MMO out there. I still would love to give traders more tools and mechanics, so there profession is more fun and less grindy. The problem with the "cool" meta-game mechanics is, that u need quite some money to actually pull those of, while simply grinding orders can be done by anyone.

bye Andy



I have just started trading so maybe I'm ******** but I love the .01 ISK game. I am kind of a day trader that trades only while I'm online on expensive items where possible. Most items im in the market on could only be traded a few times a day and competing for that top spot is very important to moving these low volume items. In theory guess the more aggressive you are in keeping your orders competitve the more volume you can move in the short term. I am not smart enough to play the long term subtle market fluctuation stuff =(


edit - Also it won't matter what penalties or changes you make there will always be people competing for the short term market order supremecy.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#26 - 2012-06-25 05:57:24 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Before Januray 2012 the market was rife with bots. Today there are still bots but I can say that they do not last very long. The problem with using a market bot is that you either have to risk a lot of isk and assets from getting banned from CCP or link to an account which risks losing multiple accounts with high wallets or high level of assets.

There are programs out there that are not banned that can alert a player the second he gets 1 isk on specific sale and buy orders allowing him to maintain 1isk across entire spread sheets with out manualing checking each order. I don't know if CCP has plans to ban this behaviour or if it fully supports it. There are multiple programs on offer that can do this for you although it's not really needed unless your planning on having a full market alt.


Well, yes and no, Iv experimented with evementat, but its really not what it seems..

Yes and no, the free public programs out there, that I personally dont like using because they are just slow and now useless with the addition of market order highlights to the game, you can just manually scan through your bookmarked items, mod the price at the same time and be done with it in half the time.

What they do is, scan each item ID every 2-3 seconds to move onto the next, now over 300 items, this isnt exactly fast efficient or, useful any more, so no, being informed the second you get outbid isnt really true.
Using these programs, makes it really easy for some one like me to spot you, Jack around the prices back and fourth then just catch the buy orders at the perfect moment and just liquidate, Or smash and grab, or both.
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