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Prandax Xeon
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2012-06-24 14:28:44 UTC
CCP screws up!
Goons make tons of isk!
CCP takes it all away!
Goons make tons of alts to cry tears!

Never Forget this is the best week ever, I'll resub!

How is a Wyvern like an Ibis?  Neither have a drone bay!  
Frying Doom
#42 - 2012-06-24 14:29:02 UTC
Zagdul wrote:

Did people who used it have their assets seized without warning?


I think the Insurance nerf, the PI nerf and all the other nerfs on destroying your own stuff for profit were a pretty good warning.

And the POS bans and destruction were a good warning on not exploiting the game.

Don't you?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-06-24 14:35:27 UTC
The best way I've seen this summarized was on another website. The person said (paraphrasing):

CCP are running an online game, not a libertarian wet dream.


RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#44 - 2012-06-24 20:50:01 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
The best way I've seen this summarized was on another website. The person said (paraphrasing):

CCP are running an online game, not a libertarian wet dream.




I'm pretty sure it's the opposite; that's the reason its alternative name is "Space Somalia"

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-06-24 21:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
RubyPorto wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.


People warned CCP about the possibility of this before the patch went live. CCP didn't listen. Why is CCP punishing people for pointing out that they didn't listen?



There is a possibility that i might go on a killing spree, i've warned you now. Once i get a few kills and the police catches me i expect the judge to let me go free because....well, i warned ahead.

The more social baddies leave the more nicer people join.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#46 - 2012-06-24 21:20:28 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.


People warned CCP about the possibility of this before the patch went live. CCP didn't listen. Why is CCP punishing people for pointing out that they didn't listen?



There is a possibility that i might go on a killing spree, i've warned you now. Once i get a few kills and the police catches me i expect the judge to let me go free because....well, i warned ahead.


Not quite. If there were a new murder law coming down the pipes, and the details were released ahead of time, and you warned the legislature of a gaping hole in the law, then when it came into effect, you waltzed through that gaping hole on a killing spree, the fact that you warned them ahead of time would be beside the point, since in RL, there's a constitutional ban on Ex Post Facto laws. But warning them ahead of time would shift a lot of moral blame onto the legislature.

Murder is illegal now. What the Jewbal did wasn't illegal when they did it.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#47 - 2012-06-24 21:42:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
You do know Sandboxes have walls right? This is a Sandbox not a desert.


I agree - and Eve has tons of walls - the thing however is that if CCP mess a mechanic up (i.e. they set the walls wrong), people can and will exploit it. CCP then may realize it isn't working as they meant it to work and may label it an exploit.

Everyone using the mechanic after that should have the assets and isk they made that way removed - fine. Up to the point they labeled it an exploit, it's a game mechanic.

Anyone remember the ferrogel incident? CCP have been made aware of the exploit several times and never fixed it - then, they suddenly realize it and punish people for their own mistake and failure to read bug reports... Now that obviously was a bug, but the mechanic was there, was reported and was neither fixed or labeled an expoit for ages, then all of a sudden CCP swings the banhammer for their own shortcomings.

What about the margin trading scam? That's more exploitative of weird game mechanics than what goons did here - will CCP suddenly decide it's an exploit after years of leaving it untouched and seize isk retroactively?


Shouldnt everyone then be banned given how our accounts used to go dark and skills still trained? Then they "fixed" that exploit.

RubyPorto wrote:
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Excessive tears by Goon alts?


Exploit: to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: to exploit a business opportunity.

If this is too hard to understand, perhaps I can find a kiddie's dictionary to link for you? Shocked


Some words have more than one definition depending on the context.


Yeah but not being able to tell right from wrong, that borders into antisocial personality disorder... dammit if you dont want ppl to call you a sociopath, quit living the stereotype

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#48 - 2012-06-24 21:45:38 UTC
Savage Angel wrote:
When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Is this not a saying that is part of the Eve mantras?


Yeah along with HTFU

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-06-24 22:04:20 UTC
Quote:
Not quite. If there were a new murder law coming down the pipes, and the details were released ahead of time, and you warned the legislature of a gaping hole in the law, then when it came into effect, you waltzed through that gaping hole on a killing spree, the fact that you warned them ahead of time would be beside the point, since in RL, there's a constitutional ban on Ex Post Facto laws. But warning them ahead of time would shift a lot of moral blame onto the legislature.

Murder is illegal now. What the Jewbal did wasn't illegal when they did it.


If it wasn't illegal in the first place then why did they even warn ccp ?Roll

People do that because they are afraid of the consequences that their future actions may bring....

You can polish what they did however you like, in the end the fact is that they took advantage of a loophole that wasn't intended to be used like that in the first place.


Example: If some patch gave an extra 0 by mistake to a certain module and only a couple people knew about it and they proceed to abuse that advantage knowing FULL WELL that the "extra 0" is in no way intended by the developers then its an exploit.



Kinda like "Hmmm, that can't be right, but i'll go ahead and do it anyways just to see how rich i can get before they fix it"
Talard Khardula
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-06-24 22:08:12 UTC
Fatbottom Girl wrote:
CCP Xhagen says. "Technically speaking, they were not doing anything that was forbidden

June 22, 2012 Never forget.

The death of the sandbox came as innocuously as it began. A group of enterprising individuals who examine patch notes and run spreadsheets and formulas found a way to get ahead of a poorly implemented feature on an upcoming patch. The Viking Gods of CCP hf saw fit to sacrifice innovation upon the altar of expediency.

Walls slammed into place and bars were erected. "You may go this far and no further," was the message. This bold and beautiful universe we live in became much smaller.

June 22, 2012 Never forget.



Whine, whine, whine some more. Your tears are delicious.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#51 - 2012-06-24 22:09:13 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Quote:
Not quite. If there were a new murder law coming down the pipes, and the details were released ahead of time, and you warned the legislature of a gaping hole in the law, then when it came into effect, you waltzed through that gaping hole on a killing spree, the fact that you warned them ahead of time would be beside the point, since in RL, there's a constitutional ban on Ex Post Facto laws. But warning them ahead of time would shift a lot of moral blame onto the legislature.

Murder is illegal now. What the Jewbal did wasn't illegal when they did it.


If it wasn't illegal in the first place then why did they even warn ccp ?Roll

People do that because they are afraid of the consequences that their future actions may bring....

You can polish what they did however you like, in the end the fact is that they took advantage of a loophole that wasn't intended to be used like that in the first place.


Example: If some patch gave an extra 0 by mistake to a certain module and only a couple people knew about it and they proceed to abuse that advantage knowing FULL WELL that the "extra 0" is in no way intended by the developers then its an exploit.



Kinda like "Hmmm, that can't be right, but i'll go ahead and do it anyways just to see how rich i can get before they fix it"


Because they noticed that a whole lot of stupid was coming down the pipes? Similar to the way Akita T pointed out the stupid that is Tech before the Moon Goo re-balancing.

People told the developers that tying LP gains into market value would lead to this situation. If there were an extra zero on something, you told CCP that that extra zero could cause problems, and they ignored it, then you have to assume that extra zero is intentional.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Lexmana
#52 - 2012-06-24 22:12:52 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
What the Jewbal did wasn't illegal when they did it.

Are you saying that exploiting a vulnerability should be legal up and until CCP says no?
Coca Carola
#53 - 2012-06-24 22:14:35 UTC
Goons, their alts and their fanboys need to HTFUBig smile
Dave stark
#54 - 2012-06-24 22:17:16 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Strong Black Woman wrote:
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
If you want to pull of a grand heist, you shouldn't tell anyone you just pulled off a grand heist.


I they didn't tell anyone, then it would be a heist. By telling everyone about it, was just emergent gameplay.

Not really... Was the boomerang exploit emergent gameplay? How about that exploit where you webbed freighters as they were trying to insta-warp from stations? Both were clever manipulations of the game, but were still exploits.


People warned CCP about the possibility of this before the patch went live. CCP didn't listen. Why is CCP punishing people for pointing out that they didn't listen?


go read the 150 page locked thread, nobody has been punished yet. nothing has or will be decided until monday.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-06-24 22:22:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:


Because they noticed that a whole lot of stupid was coming down the pipes? Similar to the way Akita T pointed out the stupid that is Tech before the Moon Goo re-balancing.

People told the developers that tying LP gains into market value would lead to this situation. If there were an extra zero on something, you told CCP that that extra zero could cause problems, and they ignored it, then you have to assume that extra zero is intentional.



You are saying ccp needs to "goonproof" their patches while making everybody else wait ? You are also saying that silence means "yes, go ahead" ? Eve isn't only played by the "goon mentality", CCP aren't releasing new content/changes just for the "goon mentality".
Dave stark
#56 - 2012-06-24 22:23:51 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
You are saying ccp needs to "goonproof" their patches while making everybody else wait ?


no, CCP should release content when it's finished, been tested, and is actually ready for deployment to live servers.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-06-24 22:31:56 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
You are saying ccp needs to "goonproof" their patches while making everybody else wait ?


no, CCP should release content when it's finished, been tested, and is actually ready for deployment to live servers.


We are talking about an alliance that always find a way around everything. Next expansion is in 2 years.....i can see it ending well for ccp.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#58 - 2012-06-24 22:57:34 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
What the Jewbal did wasn't illegal when they did it.

Are you saying that exploiting a vulnerability should be legal up and until CCP says no?


When you report it before it goes live and CCP doesn't bother to fix it, sure.

That's how it worked with PI goods, Insurance, and how it's likely to work with Tech. All were things that CCP cocked up, all were things where people were allowed to make money until CCP said no.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#59 - 2012-06-24 22:59:00 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


Because they noticed that a whole lot of stupid was coming down the pipes? Similar to the way Akita T pointed out the stupid that is Tech before the Moon Goo re-balancing.

People told the developers that tying LP gains into market value would lead to this situation. If there were an extra zero on something, you told CCP that that extra zero could cause problems, and they ignored it, then you have to assume that extra zero is intentional.



You are saying ccp needs to "goonproof" their patches while making everybody else wait ? You are also saying that silence means "yes, go ahead" ? Eve isn't only played by the "goon mentality", CCP aren't releasing new content/changes just for the "goon mentality".


I'll settle for 5-year-old proofing the patches. Or maybe listening to people when they point out massive, gaping holes in their product. After all, we're not here to watch Gonzo, we're here for spaceships.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-06-24 23:13:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
RubyPorto wrote:
Or maybe listening to people when they point out massive, gaping holes in their product. After all, we're not here to watch Gonzo, we're here for spaceships.

Thing is, its not massive, gaping holes in the product if it requires hardcore spreadsheet action and only a couple of people actually go that far.

In your case CCP should have listened to the ui change too, even if only the minority can't stand it.