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Podded for the first time

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Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2012-06-24 11:09:20 UTC
i mean shortest lived for me. I was put off after 1 month by purely the community. i can see myself in a captial ship you know, doing the space fleet battles but the prospect of spending more then 1 year surrounded by griefers and scammers is just too much.

its not about hello kitty at all.

its about ganking people in their first month when youve been playing for a year and have buddies with you. this just isnt what i consider a fair chase.

do try not to think so absolute.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#122 - 2012-06-24 11:12:46 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:
i mean shortest lived for me. I was put off after 1 month by purely the community. i can see myself in a captial ship you know, doing the space fleet battles but the prospect of spending more then 1 year surrounded by griefers and scammers is just too much.

its not about hello kitty at all.

its about ganking people in their first month when youve been playing for a year and have buddies with you. this just isnt what i consider a fair chase.

do try not to think so absolute.


Who ever said EvE's supposed to be fair? EvE's about winning. Get some friends and lay a trap for these guys.

(It's an MMO. Might as well get started meeting people now, if you want to be in Cap fights)

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-06-24 11:16:49 UTC
oh yeah, he won vs my mining vessel that was in high sec, then he won vs my pod.

sorry im going elsewhere to get my "i win" kicks. that doesnt really make me feel like i win.

like i say, i dont plan to be a griefer in the future so im out of here.
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2012-06-24 11:23:25 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:
oh yeah, he won vs my mining vessel that was in high sec, then he won vs my pod.

sorry im going elsewhere to get my "i win" kicks. that doesnt really make me feel like i win.

like i say, i dont plan to be a griefer in the future so im out of here.


don't blame the game, blame your own ineptitude.

I've never "griefed" anyone, but I was also not stupid enough to get "griefed" in over six years of playing.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#125 - 2012-06-24 11:26:13 UTC
I once speed tanked a rifter in my pod. True story.
Reech Yvormes
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2012-06-24 11:26:50 UTC
yes my ineptitude. fine.

last post
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2012-06-24 11:28:18 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:
oh yeah, he won vs my mining vessel that was in high sec, then he won vs my pod.

sorry im going elsewhere to get my "i win" kicks. that doesnt really make me feel like i win.

like i say, i dont plan to be a griefer in the future so im out of here.


I should hope not, can flipping nubs in the starter systems is the lowest of the low. Why dont you go kill poorly tanked ice miners for profit?
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2012-06-24 11:28:18 UTC
Reech Yvormes wrote:
yes my ineptitude. fine.

last post


I'd say don't let the door hit you on the way out, but you probably slammed the door on your own head, and then blamed the door for it.
Krayden Blacksun
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#129 - 2012-06-24 13:24:36 UTC
Three pages of tears later and I still can't believe that this portion of the thread is still going.

RubyPorto has been more than accommodating and helpful, tbqfh. Not only did he make suggestions on how to avoid the situation you found yourself in, but he's pretty much rebutted every argument you've thrown back in his face.

You said you've been playing MMO's since dialup. A lot of us here have too. I have never once started playing a game without fully checking out the forums and getting a handle on how the mechanics of the game work. There are quite literally thousands upon thousands of threads out there about EVE, as well as vids on youtube. You're telling us that the fact that over 70% of them discuss ganking/griefing/stealing/corporate espionage didn't set the alarm bells off in your head that this may not be the MMO for you?

You've heard of the phrase "fore-warned is fore-armed" ? I knew exactly what I was getting in to when I downloaded this game and so did everyone else (everyone except you, apparently). I fully expect to rage against my monitor on countless occasions, as people take out my ships that I became attached to (Rule #2 don't become attached to anything in EVE).

I guess what I'm trying to say is this: Good luck and have fun in your next MMO of choice. This learning experience has been brought to you by the Capsuleers of EVE and I dare say that it is one you wont soon forget.
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-06-24 15:32:42 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
I've yet to see you propose a reason NOT to be shot at, other than you just don't like it. So, would that mean the people there would need to ask permission first?
Yes. Or just not do it at all. What reason is there for griefers in other games not to grief other than avoiding ruining another person’s game experience? Why should I not team-kill someone in an FPS if the game possesses no built-in penalty that would really deter doing so (such as a perma-ban)?

Also, there is a financial reason for leaving someone the fuck alone: Many people would probably be willing to pay a ransom in order to avoid getting podded after their ship has been destroyed (I know I would). So after they destroyed your ship they might be able to make some millions merely by sparing your life.

Kimmi Chan wrote:
1. You're Gallente RPing an Amarrian Lord. Bad enough that you are Gallente but I don't know any Amarrian Lords who go to the University of Calle.
I am not RPing as an Amarrian Lord. Please reread my initial post. I only referred to Amarrian royalty in order to give you guys an example of what I meant by “refusing to use clones”. But, as it was pointed out several times by now, all capsuleers start as clones so my RPing was pointless to begin with.

Kimmi Chan wrote:
2. You should use the Bio of your character to develop your story.
I know, I already did so but now that I gotta come up with a new one I temporarily deleted my previous bio until the new one is finished.

Krayden Blacksun wrote:
Am I the only one who sees the irony in posters being reprimanded for trolling....in a thread started by a troll?
Oh you silly, silly person. I’ve said this so often already in this thread that I won’t bother writing it up again. Here, have a quote instead:
David Toviyah wrote:
Again with the unfounded allegations. Let me repeat myself until you people learn it, Kalea: I am not trolling. If there is a way for me to prove the validity of my story then please, by all means, do tell.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2012-06-24 15:40:00 UTC
EVE incorporates Social Darwinism very heavily. This, for many people, is one of the games selling points. Unfortunately for you, CCP is not willing to limit this social darwinism as it would hinder many of the emergent gameplay mechanics. The very same rules that are in play that allowed you to get rumbled, and receive no compensation or sympathy -- are the same rules that allow EVE to have events occur which make headline news in the gaming media.

All in all you should understand that there is nothing that you can do about this, and your public objections don't result in you getting sympathy or understanding -- They make it worse. Everyone plays by the same rules you do, and everyone operates just fine under them.

EVE is hard. That's the idea.

Former member of CSM6.
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-06-24 15:54:22 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
I've yet to see you propose a reason NOT to be shot at, other than you just don't like it. So, would that mean the people there would need to ask permission first?


Yes. Or just not do it at all. What reason is there for griefers in other games not to grief other than avoiding ruining another person’s game experience? Why should I not team-kill someone in an FPS if the game possesses no built-in penalty that would really deter doing so (such as a perma-ban)?

Also, there is a financial reason for leaving someone the fuck alone: Many people would probably be willing to pay a ransom in order to avoid getting podded after their ship has been destroyed (I know I would). So after they destroyed your ship they might be able to make some millions merely by sparing your life.


Horrible analogy. Team-killing on purpose in a FPS match goes against the what the friendly fire system is designed for in those games. A player shooting at another player in EVE however, is part of the foundation of EVE, two totally different animals.

Some people do take ransom for pods, some don't. Also, keep in mind some simply don't care about the amount of isk you'd be able to pay out as ransom, and in other cases podding is a strategic move to delay/prevent reinforcements.
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-06-24 15:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: David Toviyah
I am not asking CCP to change the freedom that we have in EVE. What I am doing, however, is appealing to the players of EVE who act in the ways I described to behave less selfishly. In virtually every other online community behavior like the one I mentioned would result in unanimous admonishment but in EVE many forms of griefing are not only accepted among players but actually encouraged. This is what bewilders and irritates me.

Sobach wrote:
Horrible analogy.
Fine, then take any other example. Destroying other players’ stuff in Minecraft, for example.
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2012-06-24 16:00:20 UTC
David Toviyah wrote:
I am not asking CCP to change the freedom that we have in EVE. What I am doing, however, is appealing to the players of EVE who act in the ways I described to behave less selfishly. In virtually every other online community behavior like the one I mentioned would result in unanimous admonishment but in EVE many forms of griefing are not only accepted among players but actually encouraged. This is what bewilders and irritates me.

Sobach wrote:
Horrible analogy.

Fine, then take any other example. Destroying other players’ stuff in Minecraft, for example.


Sure, let me know when destroying other player's stuff in minecraft becomes the fundamental driver of the economic engine in that game.

Your problem is that you're trying to paint blowing people's stuff up as griefing, when fact is that it's not so in EVE, and is actually essential for the game to function properly.
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2012-06-24 16:06:38 UTC
didn't really read thread.... can't resist finally though...

anyone else hearing Pat Benatar's "Hit me with your best shot" only with the line 'Podded for the first time' in their heads?

No?

Just me?

ok, continue as is.


(Seriously CCP could make an awesome video to go with that song!! be a great addition to HTFU! (hint hint!!))
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2012-06-24 16:09:08 UTC
That is just incorrect, Sobach. Sure, lots of stuff is bought because people lose their ships due to player pirates but that does not mean that EVE would not work without them. For instance, there would still be PvE. Or sanctioned PvP like corporate and faction warfare. In any case, the player base in EVE would make things work by adapting to the new situation. Learn2economy.

Besides, you can’t change the fact that said behavior is purely destructive. It creates no value. By your logic war in the real world is also fucking great because hey, just look at all the stuff that can be rebuilt after an entire country has been leveled to the ground. Even better, after wiping out millions there is so much room for growth now!

Killing other people is immoral. Deal with it instead of justifying it.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2012-06-24 16:19:55 UTC
Whiteknights are against Darwinism.

So, i say, let's kill them all.

Makes the world (space) a more natural place again.
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2012-06-24 16:23:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobach
David Toviyah wrote:
That is just incorrect, Sobach. Sure, lots of stuff is bought because people lose their ships due to player pirates but that does not mean that EVE would not work without them. For instance, there would still be PvE. Or sanctioned PvP like corporate and faction warfare. In any case, the player base in EVE would make things work by adapting to the new situation. Learn2economy.

Besides, you can’t change the fact that said behavior is purely destructive. It creates no value. By your logic war in the real world is also fucking great because hey, just look at all the stuff that can be rebuilt after an entire country has been leveled to the ground. Even better, after wiping out millions there is so much room for growth now!

Killing other people is immoral. Deal with it instead of justifying it.


I'll throw that Learn2economy right back in your face. Without PVP-derived ship and equipment destruction, there would be almost no demand for any player produced goods outside of ammunition. ISK itself will become pointless as there's little to buy with them. You may want to try reading some of the economic reports released by CCP throughout the years and figure out just how much of EVE's industry is driven by PVP demand before you start talking out of your ass again.

Destroying other player's ships is obviously destructive, but it certainly holds value. When I destroy another ship in wspace, I get access to their loot and wrecks, and at the same time making my chain of linked systems safer for my own activities. That's plenty of value right there.

Also, you know you have no basis in reality once you start to fall back on the "but, but in real life!!!" argument. EVE is not planet Earth, internet spaceship pixel is not a human being, if you can't grasp the fundamental differences between how the world of EVE works compared to real life, you have bigger issues to worry about.

TBH, if you truly believe that blowing up another players ship is the same as killing a person and is therefore immoral, you probably want to quit EVE now.
Pyramid Scheme
Carebear Productions
#139 - 2012-06-24 16:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Pyramid Scheme
David Toviyah wrote:

Besides, you can’t change the fact that said behavior is purely destructive. It creates no value. By your logic war in the real world is also fucking great because hey, just look at all the stuff that can be rebuilt after an entire country has been leveled to the ground. Even better, after wiping out millions there is so much room for growth now!

Killing other people is immoral. Deal with it instead of justifying it.


that IS what wars are for in real life, and in eve

what, you think people go to war for some ****** moral reasons? countries go to war for profit, monetary or otherwise.

killing others is not immoral. morals are relative to what you need them to be, nothing more.
David Toviyah
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2012-06-24 16:44:32 UTC  |  Edited by: David Toviyah
Pyramid Scheme wrote:
that IS what wars are for in real life, and in eve

what, you think people go to war for some ****** moral reasons? countries go to war for profit, monetary or otherwise.
Reread my post. I did not say that war is not fought for these reasons, I said that war is not something good because of the aforementioned aspects of it.

Pyramid Scheme wrote:
killing others is not immoral. morals are relative to what you need them to be, nothing more.
What is this, I don’t even ... please start making sense, now.

Sobach wrote:
You may want to try reading some of the economic reports released by CCP throughout the years and figure out just how much of EVE's industry is driven by PVP demand before you start talking out of your ass again.
PvP ≠ ganking. Didn’t I make that clear in my previous post? Also, PvE. All the stuff would still be in demand albeit less. Besides, the free market that is EVE would adapt in one way or another (e.g. by focusing more on PvE). As for the extent of ganking’s influence, I suggest you provide some proof instead of saying “At some point CCP released some data on that somewhere”.

Pyramid Scheme wrote:
TBH, if you truly believe that blowing up another players ship is the same as killing a person and is therefore immoral, you probably want to quit EVE now.

Yet again, you misunderstood me: I merely tried to explain that it is the same fundamental that applies (i.e. it is immoral for the same reasons) but it is obviously not of the same value. Killing a person in real life has obviously far more consequences than doing the same to an “internet spaceship pixel” and is thus far more immoral.