EVE General Discussion

This video is titled "finding fights with the map". What you can find, you can also avoid. I flew to and from Venal from highsec about a month ago; first thing I did was avoid two obvious gate camps. Once in Venal I took a 'side entrance' to a system a few times rather than run through a camped gate: from BV-1JG, I went 0-BFTQ > SS-GED > AJCJ-1 > 6NJ8-V, rather than jump BV-1JG > 6NJ8-V.

Plotting a course from Domain to Stain, I routed around the perpetually supercamped HED-GP (AFAICT by the map; never been there) and only died once from lazily warping gate-to-gate. I can't fly anything with a covops cloak or an interdiction nullifier.

You want to go to nullsec? Then go. There aren't huge barriers of entry. You can always fly right into Providence, or join an academy and get escorted to the edge of their jump bridge network in lowsec.

But you may find when you get there that some parts of it kinda suck, and you may reckon it better for you to make your money in highsec. That's what this thread is about.

The relationship between the PVPers and the rest has to be a 2-way street. Both sides need to benefit. Very few people are going ot bother going to null and setting their business up there knowing that the barbarian hordes are going to burn it all down. Any business needs some measure of stability in order to grow.

It's looking to me as though the fix is to look at the 'carebears' (I'm not using that in a derogatory sense) as a resource. Null alliances should want miners and industrialists and explorers in their space. Their stations should be taking a cut of transactions, the refineries taking a cut of the ore and so on. Viewed this way, it would be in the interests of the alliances to keep their bears safe, and also in their interests to destroy the bears of rivals, or non-affiliated bears.

because you have the luxury of ensuring that any wormhole with bad people on the other side is closed right up

The experiment has been tried repeatedly. Contrary to what certain foolish people would have you believe, 0.0 isn't entirely populated with people who spend every waking moment hating any player who build ships or mines minerals.

It's just that, and I want you to stop me if this isn't completely clear, it's currently hugely more efficient to import what the alliance needs from hi-sec AND the outpost infrastructure is utterly insufficient to do the job even if it weren't.

The system of Perimiter has more manufacturing capability than the entire region of Deklein. 0.0 players would have to spend something like 45 Billion ISK to get an outpost that has 2% of the manufacturing capability that the good residents of Perimeter get for free. That's not a typo. The CFC would have to spend about 2 trillion ISK to get the freely provided manufacturing capacity of one single system in Caldari Hi-sec. And that manufacturing capability would be spread out over 50 systems, with all the overhead that entails.

Therefore pretty much the only things that get manufactured on sov space are supercaps (and that's because CCP make it so that sov space is the only place they're allowed to be built) and ratting ammo.

Holy ****** strawman, fatman.

First off, I've no idea where you've gotten this ridiculous idea that "carebears are strictly for feeding off of by killing", this is a ******** interpretation and you should feel bad for even thinking this. The reason I want carebears to come to null is so we can stop being beholden to Jita to the degree we are now, and it would mean that our industry would be interdictable in a way it currently is not, meaning an alliance with the most complete package (industry, logistics and warfare) would be most likely to be on top, instead of just warfare and logistics as it is now. Obviously, as a result there would be more targets for roaming gangs, but this is, and I'll emphasize, not the main reasoning behind this desire. But I guess you're going to interpret this as "yes, we want more carebears in null so we can kill them". I'll just refer you to the last paragraph, then.

As to "the yield of the refining at a POS", would you like to sit feed a POS refinery for a 75% return, when you can just rightclick and select refine in a station? Would you like to have to expend much more energy and isk just to barely surpass one hisec system's manufacturing, research, copying, invention capabilities etc ... in a whole region?

No?

Funny, nor would I, and neither would I expect anyone else to, either. But then again, I suppose you think carebears are supposed to be some sort of poor slave we just kick around and force to make stuff for us, and then kill, and expect to come back and do it all again. Honestly, I can't make up strawmen this badly, I should applaud you for it.


Yes, yes you most definitely look like one, with posts like this.

making nullsec vibrant again ; that is hopeless
aslong those redneckalliance do not change their attitude and they will never change nothing will EVER change some alliances may change name but overall itwill be the same people

Any change that even remotely has the chance to disrupt their little sandcastles is out right rejected by them .
I am not suprised they are getting bored out there, since they basicly split up all of the available nullsec between them , turned everybody who has influence blue and have a huge steady income from their moongoo , what else is there to do ,
whine about how more exciting highsec is ?
whine about how nobody wants to join them. anymore?

they got only themselves to blame for taking out the excitement out of nullsec

There are a few things CCP could do but sadly they would create such massive whine threads from those alliances , i can think of one for sure, it wouldn't be fun anymore

Goons Delenda Est

Umm, aside from the attitude of the null-sec dwellers, there's otherwise nothing wrong with their style of playing. The game allows for it and thus people take advantage of it. That is all there is to it, and that is also where the core problem lies: game mechanics.

Never blame it on players and how they play it. They only follow the rules and use the tools that the game present to them. Nothing more, nothing less.

That is why if people want to see any change then the tools must be tweaked or changed.

Attitude has nothing to do with it, although I'd be VERY disturbed if EVE null-sec players were all about sweet candy, rainbows and fluffy pink clouds.

That's my gimmick. :argh:

Sure, you can also "chain roll holes" to find pvp, empty null-sec to go rat/anom in and since WH's are mass/time limited it restricts the kinds of things you can do.

Also don't have to worry about titans or hotdrops, and if you *do* get surprise buttsecks'd, you know that either someone has done their homework and seeded your WH over a period of time (with combat ships) and you haven't seen it (not too many WH corps have 23.5/7 coverage) OR there is a limited amount of tonnage coming through to you. You can then decide to tactically collapse the wormhole on your enemies (stranding one of your guys on the far side to trap the enemy in with you if you have to) and then race to see who can locate and control the next entrance - defenders or attackers.

Gaining and maintaining "hole control" is another level of strategic thinking when engaging...

Also!

You don't have to worry that your neighbor has 50,000 neighbors - usually fights are (admittedly) much smaller than 0.0 fleet battles - most people end up holding one "WH" system. But to imply (as others have, i.e. "Seleene" and the pants-on-head stupid WH Stabilizer) that these "home" systems are impregnable is wrong. You have to want the fight, you have to spend time staging your forces (in our case we spent three *MONTHS* getting assets in a WH we were going to invade) then you spring your trap. All while not getting spotted/ganked/locked out.

Bonus points for poding your enemies out of the WH after you pop their ships.

Another reason people are in WH's instead of 0.0 - in WH's a small group *can* make their own way. They can create their own "story" - WH's aren't all claimed. And even with claimed WH's - because the routes in and out are *not* static - you can't always lock people out of your 'hole...

As was stated earlier in this thread - Null sec Stations should give benefits to null-sec industry, should have (MORE THAN) enough slots so that "Industry in Deklin doesn't have to be dedicated to only making fuel blocks for the Crucible release", more research/invention and refining bonus'/slots than Hi-sec. (That is also pants on head silly that Null doesn't). Also (imho - and as I've said before) Null industry/refining/invention all should be able to be done at higher % of profit/margin than in Hi-sec (RP it as "we don't need no stinking OSHA in Null-sec).

Still and all - I still don't think Null Sec alliances have done enough to combat the damage wrought in their name by those who have shiptoasted over the years, giving null-sec'ers a bad reputation to just about everyone else. Most of the time it seems like giving bad information/trolling/insulting isn't just tolerated by Null residents, it's actively encouraged...

This thread (for the most part) being somewhat free of that.

Introduce a few more NPC 0.0 regions which are more lucrative than syndicate or great wildlands...? Idk, just spitballing here...