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Goons 4x4ing through the Sandbox - Market Manipulation on a Grand Scale

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Dreiden Kisada
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2901 - 2012-06-24 03:03:00 UTC
Haquer wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Or Mittens could just saw screw it and burn everything.


I hope to see this too: I'd love to see Mittens screw a saw. A nice rusty one. Or maybe a chainsaw....


Id like to see him try to burn it all down like the Goons constantly threaten.


[Citation Needed]


That's hearsay and you don't know what you're talking about.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2902 - 2012-06-24 03:06:12 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Then again Id LOVE to see the hamfisted CCP response that bans them all


like when they waved the banhammer at us when we disrupted gallente ice mining, burned jita, created a technetium cartel and funded hulkageddon?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#2903 - 2012-06-24 03:08:44 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
I love this thread. It is adding to my do not read this persons post file. The forums are so much better now that the tinfoil hatters are crawling out of the woodwork to be placed on that list.

Thanks Goons.



Feel free. Apparently smacking goonswarm over the head with a giant purple dildo has improved my standing in eve as one of eve's preeminent comedians.

I'd like to thank my fans for their kind words and evemails. I will, however, point out that the one from paint suggesting I 'dye in a fryer' might have done with a bit more revision before sending.

Or perhaps less vodka.



Graic Gabtar wrote:
From an interview CCP gave:

Quote:
Asked whether the players have to deal with any consequences of the case said Peter, "Technically speaking, they were not doing anything that was forbidden. Thus, it is unclear what will be done. "



Yeah, CCP Sreegs already addressed that, suggesting that we use the interview as toilet paper.

Cipher Jones wrote:

That's what hearsay is you pubtard, a second hand story.


Cipher, you might want ot consider not casting aspirations on other intelligence if you don't realize that he's talking about people giving first person eye witness accounts. While your definition is right, it's clear his point has warped to zero past you.


I realize hearsay is irrelevant to arguing with Sreegs, and that CCP does not need to hear first hand testimony when they have the logs, and that they will never give us said logs. EVERYTHING else is hearsay.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2904 - 2012-06-24 03:10:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cygnet Lythanea
Dreiden Kisada wrote:

That's hearsay and you don't know what you're talking about.


It's funny that when it bites them it's hearsay but if they think it's funny or their epeens are good and hard they're all over the forum with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZKq1HqZuvw
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2905 - 2012-06-24 03:19:06 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2906 - 2012-06-24 03:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Antisocial Malkavian
Richard Desturned wrote:
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Then again Id LOVE to see the hamfisted CCP response that bans them all


like when they waved the banhammer at us when we disrupted gallente ice mining, burned jita, created a technetium cartel and funded hulkageddon?


Wasnt that all "market manipulation" which as your people are claiming in this thread is now illegal?

lol yeah this is funny as hell

Oh come on, its more funny when you quote post T20 BoB

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#2907 - 2012-06-24 03:19:56 UTC
Quote:
That always seems to be a problem with folks who threaten to unsub. Their accounts don't run out until people have forgotten they ever threatened to unsub.


Hyperbole is a sin, you guys.


Whats a problem is people don't know how to use the ignore button. I honestly don't give 2 ***** what Joe Poster thinks about the relevance of my sub. I know god damn well what CCP thinks of it because their C.E.O. gave a speech apologizing for their mismanagement and begged us to stay/come back.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#2908 - 2012-06-24 03:24:38 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:
Morning guys...
So you say.

Sounds like rumor.
Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#2909 - 2012-06-24 03:26:09 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
Morning guys...
So you say.

Sounds like rumor.



reported for rumor cause its 11 pm here

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#2910 - 2012-06-24 03:33:29 UTC
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
Morning guys...
So you say.

Sounds like rumor.



I got a hot rumor.

Some Men Just Like to Watch the World Burn.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_eyQ0zPEc
RAP ACTION HERO
#2911 - 2012-06-24 03:39:19 UTC
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
Morning guys...
So you say.

Sounds like rumor.



I got a hot rumor.

Some Men Just Like to Watch the World Burn.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW_eyQ0zPEc


hey tell us how if we was all using avatars and emoting each other for all market functions all this wouldn't have happened

vitoc erryday
Hesperus Vanderbeets
The Greater Goon
#2912 - 2012-06-24 04:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Spam post removed. Spitfire
SavageBastard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2913 - 2012-06-24 04:16:42 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:


you know damn perfectly well that this is nothing like buying a maelstrom and reseling it. This is nothing compared to that. We are talking of 3 trillions of isk and market manipulation based on a vulnerability (exploit of mechanic). If you are gonna exploit a mechanic then you ask if its within the rules so that you are covered. Dont try to down play 3 trillions of isk and market manipulation of a game mechanic. Once again if you did not read the EULA go and do so again.



No it's not. It's like building a maelstrom and self-destructing it for insurance money, then taking the money to buy more minerals and doing it again. Only in this case CCP let players decide what the insurance price would be so the profit is cranked way up.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#2914 - 2012-06-24 04:46:29 UTC
I am Spartacus!

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Imrik86
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2915 - 2012-06-24 04:51:34 UTC
Hesperus Vanderbeets wrote:
Ban one or ban all. It's your call CCP.


Can you handle that much blood on your hands?


Damn.

The Internet Spaceships' Shakespeare.
Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
#2916 - 2012-06-24 05:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevigrofnu Mrots
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Maggie Maggie wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Comparing removing the manipulated assets of a small number of people to a complete redesign of the game may just win the prize.


Hear me out. While I am a goon and of course I do feel that a member of my tribe is under attack, I'm speaking as a player.

EVE has always been an open sandbox where players are allowed and encouraged to do things that materially affect the game. That is the one thing that sets EVE apart from every other MMO. There are other spaceship games. There are other games with a functioning market. There are other games where clever players do better than dumb people.

EVE has always been an open sandbox. If a player is afraid to experiment and push the game in new directions for fear that, should they win too big, they will lose everything, then that is not an open sandbox.

EVE has always been an open sandbox. If that is no longer the case, that constitues a complete redesign. Please don't take that first step. I like the game how it is.


When do we get to the part where we stop pretending that a gap in the timing of value calculation (programming) wasn't what was being taken advantage of here? This wasn't just market manipulation it was taking advantage of a flaw in the code.


Hi Sreegs, by reading the OP post, I can see they making LP in two moments in time.

1st moment - They fill ships with their stuff, blow them up, gain LP. By this time normal prices (no manipulation of market was done for any item) were used by the ccp scripts, and cargo contents were valid for the calculation of ship cost, so all LP gain during this time In myy option was good and according with CCP gidelines/design. Then they use this LP to upgrade FW and cash in with discounts that I also think was legal, correct me if I'm wrong.

...then CCP decided that the cargo contents should not be used for ship cost calculations, fine, they change the code. Just like you decided to change the cost of insurance to avoid insurance fraud that was a valid eve game play at one time... fine your rigth, but until you change it, in my optinion blow up ships with lots of stuff in cargo was a valid way of making LP.

2nd moment - the script that calculates the prices had bugs (I assume this from your posts, if I'm wrong correct me), so for what I'm assuming with all Im reading, any manipulation of market tricked the script to assume the new high prices sooner than it should????. If my assuption is right than at this point then I agree, if the script had a problem and calculates the prices wrong, anything they did that made the bad scipt update new prices with absurd values is a exploit... so any LP gain after the patch is "dirty" by this move.
(assuming the script had a bug or was not working as intented, because if it was good and later CCP decided they didn't like it, just like they didn't like people doing insurance fraude or didn't like the cardo contents to count for ship cost calculations when blow up, then there is no exploit... but lets assume exploit... )

In my opinion since there are two moments, CCP should check the logs and return all material and points that they made unitl the change to ship cost calculations and clear the rest after that... (my opinion)

About the stuff they had in hangar that had nothing to do with the FW or LP return them that stuff dont be mean.

Also the money they paid in FW store with the "second moment" gain LPs, take the products back, take the LPs back, but return the ISK they use to buy the products with those dirty LPs...

Since they come forward with this sytory and gave CCP a fantastic publicity in all the gamming sites, take that in consideration before... you know, wave your hammer and hit someone with it... Smile
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2917 - 2012-06-24 05:08:34 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

Wait for a final verdict. It they move to give the isk back, expect the 'CCP is Goons' rage from non-goons. If they don't, expect the 'CCP has **** on the sandbox' rage from members of goonswarm

You'll hear "Their actions are legitimate" from lots of non-goons too, you know.

Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
Dear CCP Sreegs,

I feel that taking away the ISK earned by Goons is a grave mistake. You may see it as an exploit, but I see it as an application of forethought, planning and execution.

Let them keep their ISK. Seriously.

Case in point! But then again, of course one of Eve's better known scammers would agree with us, right? Roll
I too think this was legit. The fault lies with CCP, as this is a simple case of them underestimating the player base and releasing poor design.

This is yet another prime example of CCP shooting themselves in the foot, something they seem to be getting quite adept at doing of late.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#2918 - 2012-06-24 05:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Quote:


2nd moment - the script that calculates the prices had bugs (I assume from your posts), so any manipulation of market tricked the script to assume the new high prices sooner than it should????. If my assuption is right than at this point I agree, if the script had a problem, anything they did that made the bad scipt update new prices with absurd values is a exploit... so any LP gain after the patch is "dirty" by this move.


No, the problem is that sreegs seems to be convinced that the fact that the script updated weekly somehow mattered, when in fact the estimated price could have been updated in real time and the result would still have been exactly the same. If anything, faster updates would have helped us, because we wouldn't have sat around twiddling our thumbs for a week waiting for the script to run in the first place.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Lee Whelan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2919 - 2012-06-24 05:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lee Whelan
Well, since my LP isn't worth as much as it used to..

I can haz some money bin action?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=v5aU1dmg5IE
Post Post Post
LOUDER THAN GOD
#2920 - 2012-06-24 05:21:12 UTC
Imrik86 wrote:
Hesperus Vanderbeets wrote:
Ban one or ban all. It's your call CCP.


Can you handle that much blood on your hands?


Damn.

The Internet Spaceships' Shakespeare.


I was personally thinking Spartacus.